Vandoorne: Last two seasons were ‘probably the worst in McLaren’s history’

26 comments on “Vandoorne: Last two seasons were ‘probably the worst in McLaren’s history’”

1. 

   maiagus
   21st September 2018, 0:20

   The solution for young drivers, besides less expensive options to a full F1 season, is meaningful lower series.
   The hurry to get to F1 and the hurry to discard young drivers is related to the lack of options inside and outside F1.
   A few years ago, a 25yo winner was abnormal. Today, a 25yo has to have at least 2 full seasons under the belt, otherwise it will be deemed without prospects.
   Plus, unless the young driver is a genius or very fortunate, he has just a few seasons or race to prove himself.
   Look at the roaster of RB drivers that tried and failed. Ricciardo is almost a old driver. Wehrlein and DiResta seems to be good drivers – no place at F1.
   Young drivers, even under 18yo, are forced to find a seat, competing with other less younger drivers, 21yo, and nobody has a chance to spend 30 races. But if they don’t do so, their careers basically disappear. F1 still does not like “tainted” drivers who come from other series. How come that Hartley is a world champion and can’t hold a F1 seat?
   If young drivers had some good junior series they would not be pressed to find a seat coveted by other 4 drivers in the same situation, because they have one year to go from a B team to a A team, or simply vanish from the grid. Other than that give them a chance to put a single car team together and try by himself at F1.
   1. 

      Mark Zastrow (@markzastrow)
      21st September 2018, 6:32

      Totally agree.

      IndyCar could fill some of this role, if F1 teams were willing to look in that direction. It would be fairly cheap to buy Esteban Ocon a seat in IndyCar, compared to a midfield team in F1.

      And there’s certainly precedent. Think of how Williams sent Montoya to Ganassi for two years. And the drivers that rose through CART and made it to F1—including former rejects like Zanardi, but also champions like da Matta and Bourdais. True, none of them exactly set F1 on fire, but Indy cars gave them a chance to show what they could do, which is exactly what so many of these young drivers need.
   2. 

      anon
      21st September 2018, 8:02

      The thing is, Hartley’s performance over the course of this year hasn’t exactly helped the cause of drivers who might want to come across from other series – whilst he might have had a fair bit of bad luck, his performance on track is not without criticism either.
      1. 

         Mark Zastrow (@markzastrow)
         21st September 2018, 11:37

         True, it is always a risk that talent in one formula may not transfer to F1. On the other hand, Gasly acquitted himself quite well in Super Formula, which I’d honestly forgotten about when I wrote the above comment. So to the OP’s point, I’d like to see more F1 junior talent in either Super Formula or IndyCar. Perhaps what would really strengthen the idea would be a common formula across Super Formula and IndyCar, similar to DTM and Super GT. But unfortunately I don’t really see either SF or IndyCar having the incentive to do it for themselves.
         1. 

            BlackJackFan
            21st September 2018, 19:25

            Why do people think IndyCar would want F1’s cast-offs…?
   3. 

      Stephen Crowsen (@drycrust)
      21st September 2018, 18:21

      I wasn’t aware of Hartley having lost his seat. I agree, his performance hasn’t been as good as I’d wish for, but we don’t know what his brief is. Maybe Honda and Toro Rosso are more interested in improving the engine for next year, in which case driving the engine the way Honda’s engineers want is essential.
2. 

   Joao (@johnmilk)
   21st September 2018, 0:35

   Slapping my hand continuously to discourage myself from writing yokes about Piquet and Alonso…
   1. 

      Esteban
      21st September 2018, 2:13

      Why? Are they oxen?
   2. 

      ColdFly (@)
      21st September 2018, 7:42

      Beware that your left hand doesn’t injure itself so your right hand can write that joke, @johnmilk.
      1. 

         Joao (@johnmilk)
         21st September 2018, 10:08

         what are you saying @coldfly? That my left hand might sacrifice itself for the advantage of my right hand?

         There, that one is on you
   3. 

      BlackJackFan
      21st September 2018, 19:28

      “It would be good not just for Formula E but good for Fernando to show people that he’s a true racer and he doesn’t care what he’s racing.”
      Is Piquet suggesting that top-notch drivers would otherwise consider F.E to be rubbish…? lol.
3. 

   GeeMac (@geemac)
   21st September 2018, 9:02

   ‘First of all because of the budget they have, which is many times bigger than that of our current engine supplier.’

   Max should remember that budget is no guarantee of success…Toyota may have actually won something in F1 if it was.
   1. 

      Jere (@jerejj)
      21st September 2018, 9:29

      @geemac Yes indeed. Toyota is the prime example of the budget not automatically being a guaranteed for success. To this day, I still don’t really get how they managed to fail so badly in F1 despite all the necessary infrastructures for success being in place, LOL.
      1. 

         BlackJackFan
         21st September 2018, 19:30

         And yet they allegedly took on Schumacher Jr. in the mistaken belief they were signing up Schumacher Sr…
   2. 

      rpiian (@rpiian)
      21st September 2018, 9:42

      I was just going to say this. If I recall Toyota was one of the worst cases.
   3. 

      Todfod (@todfod)
      22nd September 2018, 18:15

      @geemac

      Completely agree. Honda’s been throwing more money at their engine program than Renault has from day 1… And look at how far it’s gotten them.

      What I find funny in that article is that if you replace ‘max Verstappen’ with ‘Ron Dennis’ and date the article back around 4 years… You’ll notice its a case of history repeating itself.

      Also find it hilarious how Max has become Honda’s evangelist. He picks on any occasion he can to trash Renault and talk up Honda. If he wins a race or finishes on the podium, then Red bull has the best car. If he struggles, then they still have the best car and Renault is responsible for the lack of success.

      If I was Max I’d keep my mouth shut about Honda till pre season testing next year. It’s more likely than not that Honda will show up with a shambolic power unit…. And I would completely expect Renault to rub salt in their wounds and hit them where it hurts.
4. 

   Jere (@jerejj)
   21st September 2018, 9:26

   Regarding the Motorsport Week-article: Apparently, the author of that post hasn’t bothered to check the historical climate statistics for Las Vegas, LOL. First of all, I relatively highly doubt about the prospects of a race (at least anything that would include closing the Strip) in LV due to the number of casinos there and the amount of casino money at stake (a more detailed explanation from another user here https://www.racefans.net/2016/06/23/ecclestone-expects-18-races-2017-f1-calendar/), as well as, due to the time difference to Europe, but more relevantly on my point: June isn’t a suitable month for effectively any outdoor activity there, far from it. Basically, every month from May till September would be entirely out of the question for the same reason as with the Middle Eastern venues. The average high in LV in June is 37.1 degrees Celcius, so nowhere near favorable for outdoor activities.
   1. 

      Mark Zastrow (@markzastrow)
      21st September 2018, 11:46

      @jerejj It would be a night race, though. It cools off quickly in the desert. And it’s dry, of course. Average lows in Singapore in September are higher than Vegas in June. Race-time temps would probably be similar to Singapore, but with extremely low humidity.
      1. 

         Jere (@jerejj)
         21st September 2018, 18:11

         @markzastrow Still, it’d be entirely out of the question as the daytime temps there in June are equally unbearable to the likes of Bahrain and Abu Dhabi. Neither of these three locations is bearable for outdoor activities during the hottest months of the year even if they took place in the evening.
5. 

   Asanator (@asanator)
   21st September 2018, 12:38

   re: third cars, I just found the following whilst browsing wikipedia which I’d completely forgotten about but might at least be a start if it were re-introduced.

   From the 2004 season onward, all teams which had not finished in the top four in the previous year’s Constructors’ Championship were allowed to run a third car in the Friday practice session before each Grand Prix, for testing purposes. Other teams were also permitted to have test drivers, although they were not allowed to compete in Friday practice. Sauber chose not to run its third driver in these sessions because of the added expense.
   1. 

      Luke S (@joeypropane)
      21st September 2018, 13:50

      Problem is, the teams that are finishing out of the top 4, with the exception of McLaren (possibly), are either struggling to justify or can barely afford to run 2 cars.

      I would say a better idea would be to have a “community pot” of cash set aside from the main prize money (after re-working the current distribution, obviously) to allow essentially a “free” test weekend at the mid-season/summer break point for the teams that are currently averaging a set % away from the current pole position benchmark… but there’s waaaaaay too many sharks in the tank for that to get green-lighted…
   2. 

      Dutchguy (@justarandomdutchguy)
      24th September 2018, 10:55

      Sauber, for example, did not even field a 3rd car because of the expenses. Minardi and Jordan ran them seemingly mainly to give tests to pay drivers and bring in more money
6. 

   JohnH (@johnrkh)
   21st September 2018, 13:24

   Asked during the opening of a new Jumbo supermarket in the Netherlands why he had trust in Honda, Verstappen said: “First of all because of the budget they have, which is many times bigger than that of our current engine supplier.

   As already mentioned certainly no guarantee of success.

   Moreover, they really, really want to win.

   Yes of course they do :)
   Not saying it can’t happen but so far history is on Renaults side. They have been far more successful than Honda in F1 at every outing as an engine manufacture.
   So if things stay the same, I think Verstappen is in for a bit of a shock next yr.
   1. 

      Martijn (@)
      21st September 2018, 13:49

      We just don’t know. And neither do they (RB & Honda)
7. 

   ColdFly (@)
   21st September 2018, 14:37

   (Renault) have been far more successful than Honda in F1 at every outing as an engine manufacture.

   Have they? @johnrkh
   Renault engines has twice the number of WCC titles, but also roughly double the years they participated.
   Let’s call it ‘all square’ and see who’s next to win.
8. 

   Garns (@)
   21st September 2018, 15:47

   Some good points above, but I do agree Stoffel has been judged on the worst years at McLaren while his team-mate probably still up there with the best. He should get another chance in F1 I think.

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