Some developments are met with such little surprise they barely even qualify as ‘news’. The FIA summoning McLaren to appear before the World Motor Sports Council surely meets this criteria.
The team are being called to explain why they misled stewards about Lewis Hamilton allowing Jarno Trulli past under the safety car in the closing stages of the Australian Grand Prix.
It doesn’t take a cynic to see the result is a foregone conclusion as the team has already been found guilty once. But what will the punishment be, and why haven’t we seen the ‘disrepute’ rule being used for similar infractions?
The punishment
McLaren faces charges under article 151C of the International Sporting Code, that it has brought Formula 1 into disrepute – the same charged it faced over ‘Spygate’ two years ago.
On that occasion McLaren received a staggering fine of 50m ($100m at the time, though the final sum paid was less) and was excluded from the constructors’ championship.
Having been warned off further transgressions at the time, they could face an even harsher punishment at the hearing on April 29th. If the FIA do this, it is vital that not only the minutes of the WMSC meetings are made public, but also those of the original stewards meetings (if there are any – it has been suggested none are taken). F1’s reputation would suffer more harm if McLaren were perceived to have been subjected to a kangaroo court.
Notably absent from the FIA’s list of charges is any claim that McLaren brought a false appeal against Trulli, which has been suggested by some. This is because they did not, as the FIA’s documents makes clear:
The stewards, having received a report from the race director, have considered the following matter, determined a breach of the regulations has been committed…
Australian Grand Prix document 69
You can find the original document in the F1 Fanatic drop.io: aus09-document-686970-pdf
Dave Ryan
McLaren has admitted not telling the truth and today formally sacked Dave Ryan, the sporting director who had been with the team for 34 years. But questions are still being asked about where else responsibility lies within the team – whether with Martin Whitmarsh or Lewis Hamilton.
McLaren’s acceptance of the WMSC summoning was effusive in its promise of co-operation:
We undertake to co-operate fully with all WMSC processes, and welcome the opportunity to work with the FIA in the best interests of Formula 1.
And gave a clear hint their defence will be that Dave Ryan was responsible and they have taken the appropriate course of action:
This afternoon McLaren and its former sporting director, Dave Ryan, have formally parted company. As a result, he is no longer an employee of any of the constituent companies of the McLaren Group.
If that is their case, they will have to make abundantly clear they can prove it.
Lewis Hamilton
There has been much speculation about what effect this might have on the future of Lewis Hamilton. Will he, like Michael Schumacher in 1995, quit the team where his reputation has been tarnished by unsavoury allegations?
I have two thoughts on this comparison. First, how often did McLaren make these visits to the World Motor Sports Council before they promoted Hamilton to race driver in 2007? Quite rare, actually – certainly not as often as they have been since.
This just an observation of a pattern and not proof of anything. But it was interesting to see an FIA spokesperson suggest the governing body views Hamilton as a victim in the matter after his admission of guilt:
We recognise Lewis’s efforts to set the record straight today. It would appear that he was put in an impossible position.
Second, leaving Benetton ultimately did nothing to save Schumacher from having a reputation for, to put it mildly, being a bit of a scoundrel. More on that in a moment.
Disrepute
There have been a few occasions of teams being charged with bringing the sport into disrepute in recent years.
Before ‘spygate’ the most famous as Ferrari’s infamous use of team orders in the 2002 Austrian Grand Prix. The team were fined $1m – but that was for their drivers’ behaviour on the podium, the FIA specifically rejected the claim that the use of team orders brought F1 into disrepute (before banning them in 2003).
After McLaren the most recent team to face the charge was Renault, when it was accused by McLaren of using its intellectual property in the same way McLaren had been found guilty of using Ferrari’s. The FIA found Renault guilty but gave it no punishment “due to the lack of evidence that the championship has been affected.”
The truth
Misleading, obfuscation, whichever euphemism you prefer, there have occasions in recent years when prominent F1 individuals have given questionable accounts but not faced a similar investigation.
In 2006 Michael Schumacher denied he had deliberately stopped his Ferrari during qualifying for the Monaco Grand Prix to impede his rivals. The stewards rejected his explanation, one remarking with incredulity: “He lost control of the car while travelling at 16kph! That’s something completely unjustifiable.”
The only difference between Schumacher and Hamilton on these occasions was that Schumacher failed to convince the stewards he was telling the truth. So are McLaren actually being punished for the Australian Grand Prix stewards getting their original judgement wrong?
Last year McLaren tried to appeal Hamilton’s penalty in the Belgian Grand Prix. The FIA claimed former permanent steward Tony Scott-Andrews had changed his mind about another incident which McLaren intended to cite as precedent. When McLaren approached Scott-Andrews he informed them the FIA’s point of view was, "grossly inaccurate and misleading". Who here was not being straight?
I am not making a case for McLaren’s defence. The sacking of Ryan is a clear acceptance by the team that they had discussed what to do behind the safety car at Melbourne, took the wrong decision and, when asked by the stewards, denied what they had done.
But I am suggesting perhaps they are not the only people in F1 who have not been entirely clear about their version of events in the recent past, and not the only ones who have brought F1 into disrepute.
Are Mclaren guilty or innocent? What role did Lewis Hamilton play in all this? What punishment should they receive? Have your say in the comments.
The McLaren appeal date and many other important F1 dates can be found in the F1 Fanatic Calendar for Google.
dmw
7th April 2009, 21:19
It is a little surprising that Hamilton is being allowed to use the Nuremburg defense for his part. Usually, you would not want to remove suspicion from a party who has obvoiusly done wrong until his useful cooperation had been secured by threat of a sanction.
For this reason, I believe the preordained result is a crushing fine for McLaren, plus the obvious exclusion from the WCC. Casting Hamilton as a mere employee coerced into misconduct by poor professional advice works to deepen the shadow over the team. Further, the FIA knows that banning the current World Champ would bring a flood of unfortunate press on the sport. And it may result in Hamilton immediately retiring to Switzlerland for the rest of the year. (With two blank white cars leading the races in an unknown team, and the Ferraris posing for still life with smoke on the side of the road, say good bye to ratings.)
Given that the team has little chance of scoring many points this year, a WCC ban would cause DLR to appear in the car. I do know that Dieter Mateschitz knows that a young, famous, attractive, fast driver would sell a lot of sugar water. Of course, in my selfish interest, I want to see Vettel battle Hamilton in equal and very quick machinery.
Gman
8th April 2009, 3:14
DLR?
Gman
8th April 2009, 3:16
Sorry, just caught on to the acronym. But forget about Pedro- if Lewis either isn’t allowed to race or refuses to race, Ron will have di Resta on his way to Woking before the courtroom clears out in Paris…….
S Hughes
8th April 2009, 11:08
Did you see this article by DC? This is what he said: “I saw Lewis after the drivers’ meeting on Friday – before he went in to talk to the press – and he told me what happened.
Having know him since he was a small boy I have no reason to doubt him. My advice to him was simple: “On no account should you say you lied if you were put up to it.” “
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/mclaren/5115006/McLaren-were-stupid-but-theyre-not-cheats.html
He also doesn’t think McLaren have a culture of cheating. So it seems Lewis went by DC’s advice and he still gets slaughtered for it. He really cannot win in this situation. As his lifelong fan I just hope that they don’t get thrown out of the championship, get their car performing, and he wins this year again. That is the only thing that will make all this trauma worth it in the end.
Jonatas
7th April 2009, 21:32
I remember reading somewhere about Martin Whitmarsh speaking on behalf of FOTA and how that surely would be cause for some retaliation by the FIA.
In my opinion, Lewis is just as guilty as McLaren and it would be a shame if he was excluded from further punishment if McLaren in fact does receive further punishment for this incident.
I think the whole matter just needs to be left alone. McLaren was disquialified from the Australian GP, as was Lewis. Seems to be fitting punishment for me. Move on…
SYM
7th April 2009, 21:54
How can Lewis be guilty as well, when drove a clean race, did not fall off the track, called it write under pressure and complied with his superior, in order to hold on to what he is morally entitled to anyway…. i’m afraid Bernie’s ‘old boys club’ will go down on McLaren like a ton of bricks, again. Its racism by proxy.
Jonatas
8th April 2009, 1:45
He drove a masterful race and deserved that 3rd spot once Trulli went off track. Up until the moment when McLaren told him to let Trulli pass. Once he complied, then it was Trulli’s 3rd spot again. No way around it.
During his apology press conference, he said that he was immediately summoned to see the stewards and had no time to think about it. We now know that it wasn’t the case. He sat around for over an hour and had plenty of time to think and conspire about what he would say. And the bottom line is he chose to lie! He lied, and then he sat quietly watching Trulli be handed an unjust penalty! He is an adult and needs to stop being McLaren’s puppet and make his own decisions. There’s no way around it.
todd
8th April 2009, 2:40
Yeah, why is lewis not as guilty here.
he has a conscious, he had a discussion with dave ryan about lying to them and during that conversation he could have at any time raised issues, told him no or gone to witmarsh for clarification.
he’s just a guilty, when it comes down to it he lied as well, he sat there and told them a lie. there was no gun to his head, mclaren would not have sacked him for telling the truth.
mclaren doesnt deserve the penalty, dave ryan and hamilton do. mclaren apparently had no knowledge. why punish the team as a whole when it’s dave and hamilton’s conspiracy.
he should be banned for X races and bring in pedro.
f1 wont lose viewers, how big was the schumacher fan club, did f1 die off when he retired? no.
does britan have a new superstar to gush over? yes.
is everyone more interested in brawn vs toyota right now? yes.
S Hughes
8th April 2009, 11:10
I agree with you SYM. “All because a black kid had a dream of driving a F1 car!”
Jonatas
8th April 2009, 14:34
Todd,
I agree with you in parts. But you can forget that F1 iss a team sport. At least that’s how it’s advertised. Being a team sport, McLaren needs to take responsibility as a team and not single out someone. If they felt Dave Ryan was ultimately responsible, they should’ve dealt with it in a private matter.
I hate to draw comparissons, but look at Ferrari. Domenicali was asked who was responsible for the disastrous decision of putting rain tires in Kimi’s car. Domenicali’s response was that basically it was a team decision and would not name names.
Jason
7th April 2009, 21:37
I see nothing positive coming of this further review. For McLaren, for the sport and most importantly, for the fans. It has been blown way out of proportion and it seems that the FIA is only attempting to drive a wedge between the teams and the bond of FOTA. If McLaren gets a huge penalty in the form of a fine, I see Mercedes pulling out of the sport altogether at the end of the year. They are already doing horribly as a manufacturer and with the lack of McLaren’s ability to score any points this year (because a) the car sucks and b) possible exclusion of the team from points) Merc wont be getting anything in return.
Like I said. No good for anyone.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
7th April 2009, 22:03
They’re leading both championships!
Jason
7th April 2009, 22:48
I didnt mean in the sport. Obviously one of their customers is doing well, but look at their partner team, McLaren and then of course Force India… By ‘horribly as a manufacturer’ I meant in relation to the world’s economy. Also, just because a team purchases Merc engines doesn’t necessarily mean that they are going to remain involved in the sport. Especially if their partner team continues to have sanctions against them the likes of the ‘Spy-Gate’ fine.
K
7th April 2009, 23:20
lol
todd
8th April 2009, 2:42
just because it’s their engine, doesn’t mean they are leading the championship.
i highly doubt putting a ferrari or even honda engine in the back of a brawn would make it go any slower. they went with mclaren for ease of fit due to time constraints.
but on the mercedes financial front, they are aparently bleeding $1B a month?
K
8th April 2009, 10:57
Daimler is still in profit as is Mercedes, their profits may have fallen significantly but they still make billions. Either way F1 is still a good, cost effective, high exposure form of marketing, so says Mario Theissen. Ferrari customer deals are allegedly very expensive, have often appeared to come with strings attached and usually result in the customer receiving an inferior version of the power plant. Honda don’t make F1 engines. Mercedes have a long history of involvement in the upper echelons of motor sport, their engines currently power the car/team that sits at the top of the F1 standings, because of their customer deals they are actually making more back on their investment than they have for a long time/ever. They could dump McLaren but they won’t, remember they now produce road cars together. However you want to look at it Mercedes ain’t about to quit.
Mickyboy1
7th April 2009, 21:41
I think the FIA has done more to bring this sport into disrepute (from a paying fan’s perspective) than any of the above.
Gman
8th April 2009, 3:17
100% agreed on that count, and Max’s re-election won’t help any.
Hugo Bourgeois
7th April 2009, 22:05
I agree with Mickyboy1. Surely they shouldn’t make a fuss about it. As was written on this site before: had they just listened to the radio transmissions, they wouldn’t even have needed any explanation by no matter who, and they could have solved the matter without disrepute of anyone in a matter of minutes after the incident. Full stop.
BrawnGPNews
7th April 2009, 22:07
Its going to be interesting to see what happens. It seems such a silly thing too, had McLaren told the truth Hamilton would have probably been promoted to 3rd anyway, the worse would have been 4th in Australia.
But I think the FIA does have to set an example and show that lying won’t be tolerated. That said I think this could be done with a fine. I don’t think loss of points is necessary as “it doesn’t make the car go faster” though it could be argued by lying they tried to gain more points.
Will be an interesting story to watch develop
Rob R.
7th April 2009, 22:20
While I hate the FIA as much as anyone else here, I’m also sick of the histrionics and hysteria that always comes up whenever Hamilton gets penalised.
Yes FIA are blowing it way out of proportion but McLaren have only got themselves to blame here. Lying about radio calls, when the FIA has access to all the recordings. Very stupid.
And all that for what? One little third place spot, with 16 races still to go. Six points instead of five? Come on. That’s just trying way too hard. They’ve allowed the FIA to get under their skin, and become paranoid.
David
7th April 2009, 22:23
McLaren’s punishment could well be:
1. massive fine and exclusion from WCC
2. loss of Hamilton to other team (though some may think he’s more a liability)
3. loss of Mercedes engine and sponsorship
4. loss of Whitmarsh (after Ryan already)
It could also be argued that Dennis’s ‘retirement’ was a consequence of FIA’s punishment in 2007.
All told, complete (self)destruction of the team on its way? It seems obvious that this is more or less some people’s intention within F1, which makes the idiocy of lying so blatantly to the FIA stewards incomprehensible. Of course it’s completely over-the-top, hypocritical and vindictive, given the rule bending, deception and economy with the truth either side of McLaren in the paddock and beyond. But McLaren have preached ethics, done the opposite and been found out. And now Mercedes have a very nice new partner, busy winning races and run by someone who knows how to keep his nose clean…
F1Yankee
8th April 2009, 1:18
obviously the brawn-merc relationship is a great deal for both parties, but merc’s relationship with mclaren is far more extensive, including part ownership in the f1 team and/or McLaren Group. speaking of MG, i wouldn’t be surprised if this hurts their prospects of business outside of f1 – racing, aerospace, whatever.
Sasquatsch
8th April 2009, 12:54
If we go back to 2005 we see that Honda was excluded for two races after misleading the stewards with the fuel tank. So more than two races penalty for McLaren is too much (inconsistent with earlier punishments)
Dougal
8th April 2009, 17:46
@Sasquatsch
Yes. There’s nothing that the FIA hates more than inconsistency in their punishments. I mean, look at McLaren and Renault in 2007.
pSynrg
7th April 2009, 22:27
Ah, soon it will all be over (thank fk) as McLaren will no doubt melt from the radiance of the WMSC halo that glows so brightly with virtuous innocence.
I’m so bored of this… Talk about mole hills, please do – it is much more interesting.
Gustavus
7th April 2009, 22:29
That’s it! If McLaren will be punished, then it’s time to BOYCOTT F1!!! Why does the FIA hate F1?? They must hate F1, why would they otherwise wanna kill it?? They are not helping F1! They are slowly killing it!! McLaren will most likely survive another big punishment. I demand less politic and more race!!!
todd
8th April 2009, 2:45
yes please boycot, the less of you around the better.
Gman
8th April 2009, 3:20
Gustavus,
I don’t mean to suggest anything, but when the red cars are winning races, the FIA appears to be much more happy.
I agree that the FIA hate some parties involved in the sport, but certainly not all…..
Toby Thwaites 93
7th April 2009, 22:29
If Dave Ryan was sacked for lieing, so surely should Lewis Hamilton. And i dont care if Dave Ryan told him to. Lewis Hamilton is old enough to take a step back and realise by saying what he did he tried to fool and mislead the stewards into giving him a place that he frankly did not deserve. Lewis Hamilton is a liar and shows traits of a cheater
And in my opinion Hamilton should leave f1 to avoid further shame
Paddy
8th April 2009, 11:57
I kinda agree with this. Hamilton should make up his own mind to lie or not. Unless he was just thick. I wonder what would have happened if Kovalinen had been invvolved in this instead of Hamilton? I wonder would Mclaren have acted in the same way. I dont think Hamilton should leave F1 but he did lie. To blame it on a superior doesnt seem character building. To sack Dave Ryan and then not punish Hamilton in any way seems weird to me. But I suppose he is the most visible member of the team. Dave Ryan should have resigned. It would have let Mclaren as a team save a lot more face.
Gustavus
7th April 2009, 22:30
That’s it! If McLaren will be punished, then it’s time to BOYCOTT F1!!! Why does the the FIA hate F1?? They must hate F1, why would they otherwise wanna kill it?? They are not helping F1! They are slowly killing it!! McLaren will most likely NOT survive another big punishment. I demand less politic and more race!!!
Arthur954
7th April 2009, 22:34
This is all overblown. What is really disreputable for the sport is to have it governed by Bernie and Mo.
As far as trying to cover up, thats what every football team does in front of all the cameras when the referee makes a call. No big deal. McLaren has not murdered anyone or commited a similar crime.
With all the rules changes by Mo, no wonder teams get mixed up.
CDNF1
7th April 2009, 22:35
I agree, Hamilton should be punished. He is a big boy and should not have lied. Certainly the team would not sack him for telling the truth, he’d be snapped up in an instant!
Make him start last every race this season, then we can see his true talent coming thru the field (if he can!).
S Hughes
8th April 2009, 11:16
How nasty and vindictive. Why don’t you suggest he wears a jester’s hat, shackles and a prison number tattooed on his forehead! Cripes!
IDR
7th April 2009, 22:46
That’s somewhat incredible, at least for me.
Imagine for a moment:
Augusta’s Master, final round. Tiger woods change his golf ball to the opponent’s one for wining the competition, and after an investigation because a fan’s video, the truth comes to light.
I cannot imagine Tiger saying to the press his behaviour was very regrettable but he was driven by his caddy to do so.
The man who “gave a s***” to McLaren’s principal, disobeying his orders in his first year as F1 driver against a double world champion, is now driven by a 2nd level manager.
Nice try, but this is not sustainable.
McLaren and Lewis Hamilton cheated, period.
On the other hand, I don’t see this action burdens everything. McLaren has to be fined enough as Lewis has to, also.
But I think this action burdens much more on a moral basis. What the rest of the world is going to think about Lewis and McLaren, should be much more important than what FIA should decide on this.
At the end, an organization runned by a person who has been more than 20 years cheating his family, and obtaining personal satisfaction being punished by others and by punishing others… what kind of moral principles could ask for?
FIA is a joke, and all that kind of movements, firing a loyal employee just to agree with FIA not punish Lewis, because the sport needs him…
I personally don’t think FIA should punish McLaren or Lewis Hamilton quite hardly.
Other thing is what I think about Lewis and McLaren, personally…
Dane
7th April 2009, 23:03
SYM, racism by proxy? Thats very sad. What has the colour of a persons skin got to do with anything?
Hamilton & Mclaren will definitely be punished for what they did, which is fair enough. Though I sure hope the punishment isnt handed out by Max in his dungeon
SYM
8th April 2009, 9:04
Judging by the satirical ending i hope that you were also equally not serious in doubting the Bernie/FIA hounding of Lewis/McLaren.
It is easy to take things in isolation, because it suites are denials, but a more concurrent look paints a different image. All you have to do is look back to the period between mid 2007 to the present and it becomes obvious that there is an orchestrated hate campaign, 1st it was blatantly against Lewis and then shifted into
to a hounding of McLaren.
The ugly truth is that Lewis sticks in many ppl’s throats, especially the ‘ol’boys’ club that is Bernie’s FIA and many ‘fans’ too. He does not fit in their outdated models of the world and thus they need to destroy him to reaffirm their nasty ideas….. that is whats really behind the political garbage that has marred this great sport for the last 2 years.
S Hughes
8th April 2009, 11:20
Well said SYM – it’s great to see someone else who can see the truth of this whole matter. Why is it when someone mentions racism, there is shock horror denial that such a thing could happen? Either those who express shock have just emerged from a cocoon, or they are wilfully in denial.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
8th April 2009, 19:50
Where is the evidence of racism against Hamilton from the FIA?
When there was racial taunting at Hamilton last year the FIA set up a campaign and threatened the hosts of the Spanish Grand Prix with the loss of their race if they didn’t get it under control. Doesn’t sound like the actions of an organisation pushing a racist agenda to me.
Sri
9th April 2009, 11:48
@Sym
I want whatever stuff you’re on. YOu know something, Bernie didn’t like it one bit that Raikkonen won 07 title. He said it publicly, that Hamilton would be a great champion and guess who didn’t get punished in WMSC hearing that was upcoming in a weeks time or so since then. Really, would you please do us the honour of getting your facts right???
@SHughes
There is no racism against Hamilton. I believe he’s a lying con of a pr!(<, nd am not alone in that. However, that’s a different issue altogether. That’s more down to how he has presented himself and (mis)behaved, to be honest. Lewis is quite popular in UK, however, outside it is a toss. You know it is a big world, don’t you? Soon Buttonmania will be back again and well, and you know what, i look forward to it. He deserves his break completely, having roughed it through the worst times.
@Keith
Thank you for being the voice of reason mate.
K
7th April 2009, 23:21
Let Max Pain take them to his torture chamber.
SYM
8th April 2009, 23:24
Keith
I’m afraid racism has moved with times, even nasty ideologies evolve and become more sophisticated. Its very much there, propagated in a subtle but highly effective way, and its getting worse because the same faceless ppl who spread hate, very effectively using online networks/blogs etc, are the first to bleat ‘ This is political correctness gone mad’ to silence any opposing view.
The hatred towards Lewis is very subtle but highly networked and thus very effective, because the people that initiate it know exactly what will resonate and be picked up by like minded ones and if you look at the blog commentary you may be able to spot some examples… A few examples:
– 2007 and 2008’s various dodgy punishments. Lewis was the most penalised driver in 08! I wonder what his penalty strike rate is so far. A record i would guess. $100 million fine for McLaren for Spying…. omg F1 teams spy on each other! teams have been doing this to each other forever….but its McLaren that is given the biggest fine in sporting history!
-‘…..Lewis only wins because he’s got the fastest car’ constantly trotted out last season every time drove a great race, contrast to Jensen’s hero worship this season. Lewis starts passing people left and right on the track and all we get is moaning about his ‘dangerous’ antics….omg F1 is dangerous now!!!!!!
– Media coverage is continuously negative: ‘he moved in Switzerland’…so do many other drivers/sport man. Look at pictures of Lewis on official F1 site and others….he’s always shown looking dodgy or in comical demeaning poses…. not mention the mostl vile treatment of his father…. Hatred is now subtle but very nuanced for those who agree with it and those who experience it. That is why when ppl say something is racist, it is difficult for someone with a progressive mind that has not experienced this to imagine that such attitudes abound and thus believe them….
One can go on and on, and i’m sorry that this is not on song, but i think it needs to be said, because those vociferous haters are nearly succeeding in shattering the career of a very talented young man, a great British champion and highly successful and innovative British and international success story, McLarn, all because of the narrow mindedness of some out dated and retrograde ideologies…. i say lets have less hate and more sport please, lets move on….
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
8th April 2009, 23:51
In your previous comment as I understood you were referring to the FIA’s treatment of Hamilton, which is what I was referring to, not the wider media and public reaction to him, which is far beyond the scope of the article (see here for more on that).
Many other people feel McLaren’s punishments in 2007 and 2008 were vindictively motivated – not because of racism, but because of the hostility between Max Mosley and Ron Dennis. We have seen examples of this hostility in the past. So what is it about the FIA’s approach to Hamilton that specifically makes you suspect racism as opposed to some other motivation?
I’m being persistent on this point because I do not understand where you’re coming from, and I’d like to.
SimonRS
7th April 2009, 23:25
Let’s look on the positives. Max and Bernie are very financially driven. It’s not in the sports financial interests to lose their most marketable asset (Hamilton). He won’t receive any further punishment.
As for McLaren – they will receive a negligible fine. The reason it won’t be any greater is because this was not a calculated action. Clearly anyone who had spent more than a minute thinking about what Davey Ryan did would have realised how stupid it is to lie about recordings to people who have a copy of those recordings. It was an on the spot fib and any punishments will reflect that.
Gman
8th April 2009, 3:22
You are correct that Max & Bernie are money-driven, but in their world, as long as the TV rights are being sold and the far eastern nations are in line for a Grand Prix, then they coulden’t care less if McLaren disappear. That nice new theme park in Dubai isn’t McLaren-themed, after all.
SimonRS
8th April 2009, 15:11
Rubbish. If McLaren and Hamilton go, tv ratings worldwide drop big time.
sajonaraman
7th April 2009, 23:25
Am I the only one to have a feeling that if it was SF things would just melt into the background? They’d say they’re sorry, the FIA would do a scary face and the show would just go on.
I’m not saying I liked what HAM did or what his team did. Not at all. What they’ve done in Ozz was indeed a childish lie. HAM denied taking a candy from the jar and then admitted through the tears that he was told to do so. How old is he after all? Seven? F1 is (still) a pinacle of motorsport for God’s sake and he should know that he’d be grilled by the stewards, by media and by us in order to reveal what had really happened. Why did he lie then??? Anthony should be ashamed…
Lynn
7th April 2009, 23:32
Lewis did wrong,I have always said that. I am now even more convinced that he should leave F1. It’s all not worth it. A man has lost his job ( his fault I know), Lewis is humiliated and shamed ( his fault again). McLaren shamed and will receive further shaming and penalties (they brought it on themselves I know). With all this I can’t see how Lewis can carry on, he must be in a state. It’s time to move out of F1 and leave them too it.
hitchcockm00
7th April 2009, 23:52
Who would benefit from him leaving F1? F1 would lose a very good driver, popularity would fall, and surely if you think Lewis should leave then so should Mclaren.
Lewis and Mclaren should be punished more harshly than they have been, I was surprised at how lightly they got off originally, I was expecting a couple of race bans or something. But neither Mclaren or Hamilton deserve to have this held against them forever. It’s clear that Hamilton is sorry about what he did, he realises it was a terrible decision and he’ll regret it for a long time.
Hopefully the WMSC will punish them harshly and then we can all move on.
SimonRS
7th April 2009, 23:52
The problem is that Hamilton is actually quite honorable. He obviously regrets what he did. I don’t think either Schumacher ever regretted, for the right reasons (ie, not that they got caught) their various misdemeanours. This leaves Lewis with feelings of guilt/shame which is hard to deal with. He’s also incredibly competitive though. He’ll find a way to turn it all into an incentive.
He’s always wanted to be nothing but an F1 driver. He’s not going to walk away from it over this. Nor will he change teams. He’ll always be at McLaren in my opinion, a bond of 10 years is not this easily broken.
lukeaa
7th April 2009, 23:57
I really don’t think anyone should be suggesting lewis leave F1, no good would come of it whatsoever. if people just gave up when things got hard we would still all be sitting in our caves scratching our rear ends.
It would be a massive shame for him to contemplate quitting and once all this is over I hope he can learn to rise above all the BS and continue to prove that he is one of the best drivers in the world.
Gman
8th April 2009, 3:25
Why in the world would Lewis ever leave F1? Seriously, any other team on the grid would ditch almost any other driver to get him in one of their cars. And if he wasen’t in F1, what would he do- go paint fences all day? Seriously, people, wake up and smell the coffee….
He’ll be driving in F1 next season. However, the possibility of him doing it with another team is becoming believable.
Tapiwa
8th April 2009, 9:28
Lynn, you ought to be ashamed of yourself. Are you one of those people who ‘hate’ Hamilton purely because of his talent? If you think that little lying incident is the only juicy piece of scandal thats gonna present itself in F1 then you are disturbingly mitaken. Should every driver who’s involved in an unfortunate circumstance be shown the door? This is not football. Grow up.
S Hughes
8th April 2009, 11:25
I agree SimonRS. All this media speculation about him leaving McLaren just opens him up to more spite, which is the intention I think. (I could be wrong though – time will tell.)
Bert
7th April 2009, 23:39
If they get any (severe) penalty, I can truly see them walking away from F1, possibly (and tragically) taking their supplier engine engagement with them.
This is getting worse than a soap opera. I don’t know why I care anymore.
dmw
7th April 2009, 23:44
It’s worth reprising the fact that the FIA royally effed up the Australia in so many ways that are material to what is about to befall McLaren.
First, they were caught out by a terrible lack of dilligence.
Second, in their haste to make amends to Toyota, or something, they failed to recognize Trulli and Toyota’s malfeasance. It was not McLaren’s fault that Trulli deceptively failed to tell the FIA that Hamilton did not have a problem (which is what Trulli mendaciously told the media), but moved over in his favor. You did not neet ESP to see that the car was not ailing but immediately resumed behind you.
More to the point, as to Trulli’s finishing position and his own penalty, what McLaren did or didn’t tell Hamilton and when is moot—how he gained the position is moot. The question is what Trulli was thinking when he passed the McLaren, already knowing that he had already went off and legally lost his position. Becuase he finished in front of Hamilton. If he did not think that the McLaren was failing, then he converted the position and is in the wrong.
Two independent wrongs should not make a right. But if the FIA had done its job in Australia, the current issue of what is disreputable for the sport would take on a different cast.
And, lastly, Lewis will look very smart in dark blue.
Lynn
7th April 2009, 23:55
Execellent post. Especially the bit about the suit, yes he will, very smart indeed!
Jack
7th April 2009, 23:57
Trulli did not say that Hamilton had a problem. He said that Hamilton slowed down and he THOUGHT he had a problem so he overtook as there was nothing else he could do. Trulli was not deceptive in any way.
As for Hamilton, I honestly don’t see how he can claim to have been railroaded into this. The guy is not stupid and the interviews he gave immediately after getting out of his car suggest he knew perfectly well what had happened. If he had any kind of integrity he would have refused to lie. There is no way McLaren would have tore up his contract as that would be more damaging to themselves than to Hamilton. This leads me to the conclusion that Hamilton probably was more involved in this than has been let on and the reason Ryan has been sacked is that at the end of the day McLaren consider Hamilton to be of more value to them.
David
8th April 2009, 0:25
Trulli slowed down beside or just after passing Hamilton (as both ‘testified’) to confirm Lewis was in agreement with him re-taking the position.
The fact is that in a real court, perjury or false evidence is a serious crime. I’m not that sure of the legal status of a FIA stewards inquiry, but certainly I think both Ryan and Hamilton badly misjudged the situation. Coulthard said that drivers always look to present their case as favourably as possible, obviously – which implies ‘spin.’ With this kind of strategy in mind, my guess is that they agreed not to mention the radio conversations. Then Ryan was asked directly and he decided to tell what he thought was a ‘white lie:’ there had been no team order to give the place (a ‘justifiable lie,’ in his mind perhaps, because the order was quickly cancelled, though by this time the new order was already irrelevant because Lewis had ceded the position, and because Lewis deserved the position anyhow). Lewis, supposedly with an uneasy conscience, repeated this position.
But what will take some explaining is sustaining this position after the meeting and repeating it days later.
Personally I think the whole situation is ridiculous because a race controller should have sorted out what was a minor problem during the race itself. But as an official inquiry was held, even minor or trivial events have to be discussed with a sense of responsibility towards veracity and transparency that respects the forum as an institution. Or else expect to get heavily sanctioned by that institution. Which is the problem McLaren (including Hamilton) created for themselves and failed to redress after their initial mistake. The dimension has shifted from being a trivial issue over one position and one championship point because Trulli spun off, to an official institution wishing to ensure that it’s investigative processes are duly respected. It’s difficult to second guess the level of penalty they (FIA) will judge appropriate. Undoubtedly it will be based on their evaluation of the likely repercussion of a large fine for McLaren, the sport, themselves, their dispute with FOTA etc.
F1Yankee
8th April 2009, 1:26
are you seriously blaming trulli? i’m stunned…
Hallard
8th April 2009, 0:03
Okay, so McLaren and Hamilton lied. Nuff said, lets move on, put the soap opera behind us. Can we put Bernie and Max on trial before the WMSC, for putting F1 into disrepute?
Toby Bushby (@toby-bushby)
8th April 2009, 2:09
Or can either/both teams involved call for the stewards to be investigated? Why can’t they be sacked for not doing their job properly in the first place, or for providing the opportunity for a frankly ridiculous sequence of events to occur?
If a policeman had cctv footage, an audio recording and eyewitness accounts of a murder, but charged someone on only the witness accounts, without checking the other evidence, what do you think would happen to him when it all went pear-shaped in court?
The FIA should have had a clearer SC rule to start with, the Race Director should have been available to fix the situation on track and the stewards should have looked at all of the evidence before making any decision in the first instance. Once we all look at that, then we can start looking at who told lies, and what their punishment should be. And so should the *blinking* media.
S Hughes
8th April 2009, 11:49
Toby Bushby, VERY WELL SAID! Concise, clear, to the point. Shame the FIA stewards can’t take a leaf out of your book.
Lenny
8th April 2009, 0:09
If the FIA have any sense they should give Mclaren a petty slap in the wrist fine and leave it at that because mclarens and hamiltons reputations have been tarnished enough. I fear there may be further punishment to them which would spell the end of the road for mercedes’ partnership with Mclaren (possibly even f1!) and hamiltons partnership with mclaren which would be disastourous for everyone including the sport. I’d say things won’t be too bad for mclaren and Ferrari after this diffuser hearing which will bring mclaren and Ferrari back on the podium hopefully!
Oliver
8th April 2009, 0:23
The drivers won their points on the track. The question that should have been asked of Hamilton, is if he allowed Trulli past. Because the team told him to let Trulli past, then also told him to stay ahead of Trulli.
Hamilton has a clause in his contract, that he cannot say anything bad about the team. If Ryan haven answered that no, there was no call to let Trulli past, then Hamilton would have been accusing Mclaren of lying.
I also see no reason to punish twice for the same infringement. This should be a $1M fine or less, anything more then I’d assume Max is trying to actualize his FIA engine initiative.
Ben
8th April 2009, 0:59
Really? How you have such indepth knowledge of a driver’s contract (which is confidential)?
IDR
8th April 2009, 5:39
Do you seriously think think there is a clause in a contract forcing somebody to perjure, just to not damage the image of the other part?
Wishful thinking…
Oliver
8th April 2009, 0:25
If Ryan wasn’t at fault, you think he’ll just go home and sleep this through? Of course not, he will sue Mclaren.
scunnyman
8th April 2009, 0:40
The biggest joke here is all the people havng a go at hamilton. He was told (apparently), by a superior member of the Mclaren team, to lie to the stewards.
What would any of us do in the same situation?????
Would any of us REALLY say NO!!!!! to our bosses when they tell us to do something we are not happy about. As employees we do as we are told. Even if you are in a powerful position as Lewis is withing the Mclaren team.
Personally i think that enough has been made of this incident and it should all be left alone and let’s get back to a proper championship. We have enough with the diffuser situation next week and possible other infraction by brawngp like the exhausts.
Please can people just relax and think about what they are saying.
todd
8th April 2009, 2:49
that’s the problem.
people are willing to lie and cheat to get ahead, it’s happening and they can’t prove or nail anyone on it, now that mclaren have been caught in a lie, they have an opportunity to make an example of them.
they SHOULD ban hamilton from all fia motorsport for a year, make a example of him
in doing so maybe more drivers in the future will stand up to the team and say no, i’m not putting my future on the line for a lie to gain a couple of points.
the teams also need to realise that there’s harsh penalties for cheating, if everyone gets slaps on the wrist they’ll keep doing it. if they realise they could lose it all, maybe they’ll think twice.
Bookgrub
9th April 2009, 10:50
Yes. Absolutely. You mean to say you would happily lie just because your employer instructed you to?
Shameful.
Peter Boyle
8th April 2009, 1:11
FIA announcement:
The FIA have extended their leadership and commitment in
the reduction of costs of participation in the Formula
One World Championship. We realise it is imperative to
place Formula one on a sustainable basis in the current
economic crisis, diversify the engagement of FIA
with industrial partners to include non-traditional
sponsors outside the ailing automotive sector.
Thus, we are pleased to announce the WMSC will
henceforth be known as the Hasbro-WMSC brought
to you in conjuction with the manufacturers
of the popular Monopoly board game.
The currency of operation of punitive fines imposed by the WMSC to participants in FIA motorsport championships
will henceforth be applied in Monopoly money.
At our introductory event, Lewis Hamilton will be issued with a lifetime supply of get out of jail free card in
recognition of his candid admission of guilt and willingness to implicate Mclaren. Were he to accidentally drag Max Mosely’s nemesis Ron Dennis into
the mud he would be invited to “take a chance” with
Mr Ecclestone arranging a free transfer to the team of his naming.
In celebration of our new partnership motorsport will
now become a game of chance, with participants invited
to roll a steward dice at of the properties they visit
during their annual tour.
The unlucky parties will proceed directly to jail,
do not pass the finish line and be driven out of the game by demands for monopoly money.
At each
Peter Boyle
8th April 2009, 1:12
Keith,
my supply of beer, clearly exceeds your supply of characters. You clipped me :)
Peter
Peter Boyle
8th April 2009, 1:14
ah… actually, Keith, you didn’t clip me.
Just too much beer and bad typing I guess.
teamorders
8th April 2009, 1:24
I think Lewis’ fake apology did a lot of damage to his reputation. He failed to take responsibility for his actions and threw his team manager under a bus. What the hell was the point of that press conference?? Because if it was to clear his name it was an abject failure.
That said, punishing Lewis/the team further seems ridiculous….
Lynn
8th April 2009, 1:55
How do you know his apology was fake? If you have made a mistake and have apologised is it fake?
Also his team manager threw himself under a bus, as you put it, by giving a misleading account himself.
David
8th April 2009, 1:58
The press conference was in the FIA media centre after a telephone conversation about Hamilton maybe leaving F1 with one Max Mosley. Shortly after Mosley made a statement basically exonerating Hamilton. So the point of the conference was somewhere in all that: presumably exemption of LH from any future penalties, leaving MM free to continue to put McLaren through the grinder without risk of F1 losing its main icon.
I’m not being cynical about Hamilton, only about how all of these scandals are good publicity and advertising revenue for F1. I don’t think his apology was fake or that he was wrong in saying he’d been placed in a double-bind by Ryan – if that’s what happened, which presumably was the case.
If FIA had any sense of proportion and self-criticism, they’d let this go. As other people have said, it was their incompetence (not sorting out the Trulli-Hamilton position problem during the race, failing to gather all evidence themselves) that led to all this anyhow.
Keith suggests in his article that it’s a bit of coincidence that Hamilton’s arrival has coincided with McLaren being penalized by FIA so often. I think, though, it’s because MM realized that these scandals are actually good publicity (and he should know) – Alonso versus McLaren was a story made in heaven. Lewis versus McLaren could be a repeat. Even FIA versus Lewis and McLaren is good from this angle. For some people, this is all a game with big cash rewards as long as it keeps going. For others like Ryan, who’s lost his job over something relatively minor, it’s obviously not.
S Hughes
8th April 2009, 12:33
DC actually advised Lewis to say he was led to lie.
Macademianut
8th April 2009, 1:35
Why are the stewards of Australian GP not being summoned by the WMSC to find out why they did not use all the data that they had with them before they made their decision?
They just find a lame duck to show their authority.
David
8th April 2009, 2:10
Martin Brundle says that Schumacher and Senna did worse than Hamilton. Here are Martin Brundle’s exact words:
I respect Martin Brundles views more than any other pundit or commentator and this what he had to say in an article:
“The Briton’s reputation has understandably taken a battering but a sense of perspective is required here. Is what Hamilton did as bad as Michael Schumacher deliberately parking his car in Monaco qualifying? No, that was a blatant act affecting most of the field. Was it as bad as Ayrton Senna deliberately driving into the back of Alain Prost at Suzuka in 1990? No, that was spectacularly dangerous. Do the very best drivers step over the line because they cannot see anything other than their own desires and ambitions? Yes, unquestionably, and Lewis has done that.
He will recover from this in time but he will have to live with the stigma in perpetuity, just as Schumacher does. It will always be mentioned in his epitaph.”
Here is the link: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article6036074.ece?token=null&offset=12&page=2
So why are people saying Hamilton should quit F1 when it is clear that Schumacher and Senna have both done worse things. Only one explanation for this relentless Hamilton bashing: He is black and doesn’t have caucasian hair.
IDR
8th April 2009, 6:07
Yeah surely those actions an another more from Schumacher had much more impact on the results of WDC/WCC at that time.
Michael Schumacher, never apologized for what he did. He was just happy enough to his “winning_at_all_cost” moral value. He was someway a cheater, but he knew what he was and he didn’t try to convince others he was an angel.
Ayrton Senna affair at Suzuka 1990 cannot be putted in the same bag as Lewis/Michael actions. In fact he noticed before the starting of the race he was going to do so because he considered he was deeply harmed with the decission of FIA (JM Balestre at that time acting as M Mosley) to put him on the dirty side of the track despite he took the pole position. He was wrong in doing that, but he did it because he considered there was an injustice provoked by the FIA.
What we never saw, after those actions of M Schumacher or A Senna, was a press release telling the world: “Oh I did a terrible action and feel so badly but I was forced by my Team to do so”
They were men, and both assumed the consecuences of his actions not blaming anybody else.
I call that personality, something that I could not see in Lewis Hamilton’s case.
S Hughes
8th April 2009, 12:46
Hear hear! Some people never wanted him in the sport in the first place.
David
8th April 2009, 2:22
Don’t underestimate the negativity that Hamilton’s colour and hair type creates in the subconscious mind of many white people.
People can relate more to Rosberg, Raikkonen and Button because they have light radiant skin and straight hair. Hamilton’s hair type is different from other drivers in F1 because of his race – Not exactly an afro but it certainly isn’t anything like Rosberg, Button or any other driver in F1.
You might be laughing, but I’m very serious. The subconscious mind registers the fact that Hamilton’s hair type is different from the rest, and so you view him in a negative way differently already before he has even done anything wrong.
Gman
8th April 2009, 3:29
Give me a break…..
Hamilton follows the squeaky-clean image of McLaren, and he’s had that hairstyle at many points in his career. If you honestly think his hair has anything in the least to do with his popularity, I really have no words to describe how crazy that approach is.
mp4-19
8th April 2009, 6:16
who cares how his hair is, unless he drives without a helmet.
Bob
8th April 2009, 10:32
‘Radiant’ skin? Are you serious?
S Hughes
8th April 2009, 12:52
I agree with you David – I know how it works. There are people who will froth at the mouth in indignation that anyone could suggest such a thing, but racism is not only a conscious thing, but a sub-conscious thing too.
David
8th April 2009, 2:26
So with a negative view of him before he has done anything wrong, you are bound be over the top in your bashing of him when he does something wrong. It is not racism as such. It is just your subconscious mind playing tricks on you.
You think his race has nothing to do with your dislike for him, but make no mistake your subconscious mind has a negative view of him because of his race.
Lynn
8th April 2009, 2:43
David, there could be some merit in what you have said, but it’s what I call “An Inconvenient Truth” I don’t think you’ll get many takers with this. This is an issue that dare not speak it’s name. Not many want to confront this.
Jay Menon
8th April 2009, 2:47
Well, this seem to be dragging on quite nicely. The question that we should be asking is, why do Mclaren get embroilled in these situations? They always seem to be on the wrong end of the stick. They bring these things upon themselves, so they get what they deserve, its as simple as that.
Ridiculous to suggest that Lewis will/should quit because of this, just a slap on the wrist would do.
Funny how when Lewis is involved in a case, its always racism by proxy.
S Hughes
8th April 2009, 12:54
Er, maybe that’s because he’s the only black driver.
Sri
9th April 2009, 12:17
@S Hughes
Lewis does have a tendency to put his foot, make that feet, in his mouth. Name another driver in the last 3-4 years who rubbed so many people, the wrong way. You can’t. If you say Alonso, it shows how open your thinking is, as outside UK he is still very popular. Just as well, he is considered to be the best amongst the current crop of drivers.
David (Brazil)
8th April 2009, 2:50
I’m not really sure what you mean by ‘radiant’ skin, but surely skin can be radiant (or dull) whatever the colour? Also when you say people can relate more to Rosberg etc., you presumably mean other white people? Then you’d have to ask how much of F1’s global audience is white? And even so, I don’t think colour is the only thing that allows people to relate to others or identify with them.
Still, I agree that racism is always lurking an issue. I just don’t think it explains very much of what’s going on with Hamilton just now, since he’s more caught in the FIA/FOTA cross-fire than anything else, I think.
S Hughes
8th April 2009, 13:11
Lewis’ appeal is much broader worldwide than any other driver’s. Remember that Facebook fan survey that Keith did that showed Lewis has more fans than any other driver put together. His Facebook fan site now has 375,000 fans from all over the world. Trouble is, the ones in power are usually of a European persuasion so the sport’s power is not fully representative of who its fans are. A lot of people will just switch off if Lewis is ousted, not because they are not true F1 fans, but because the sport will have shown itself to have become a joke played out not on the track but in the courts and stewards’ offices.
todd
8th April 2009, 2:54
from f1.com
– on 2 April, 2009, at a second hearing before the stewards of the Australian Grand Prix, (meeting in Malaysia) made no attempt to correct the untrue statement of 29 March but, on the contrary, continued to maintain that the statement was true, despite being allowed to listen to a recording of the team instructing Hamilton to let Trulli past and despite being given more than one opportunity to correct its false statement;
so… stuck in the lie they kept lying.
todd
8th April 2009, 2:57
problem now is, if they were adamant that they were in the right they had no grounds to fire or suspend dave ryan. they should / would have stuck by him if they thought they were in the right.
by sacking him they’re taking on a level of guilt, almost accepting that they lied and agreeing that they lied and sacking the primary liar.
theRoswellite
8th April 2009, 3:02
Is the WMSC and the FIA in touch with the current state of F1 and the world economy?
If they go “over the top” with a punishment, I seriously doubt their ability to act as anything but a dysfunctional organization.
With so many teams and sponsors fighting to stay afloat in the worst economic downturn since the 1930’s, it seems ludicrous to inflate this event any more than it already has been.
Does anyone doubt the fact that McLaren and Hamilton have already been severely punished in the court of world opinion?
Please, WMSC, show a bit of equanimity and let us move on!
Gman
8th April 2009, 3:31
I agree, but Max and the FIA have always had a vendetta against McLaren, and probably wouldn’t care less if they disappeared. Perhaps Bernie can twist their arm into keeping McLaren in the championship, but in the FIA offices there’s only one team that is 100% safe from penalties….
David
8th April 2009, 3:08
To be honest, I’m not suprised that most people laugh at the racism theories, because as I said earlier, it is a subconscious thing, so you are not consciously aware of it.
Also, as I said earlier, it is not racism as such. It is your subconscious mind playing tricks on you.
Polak
8th April 2009, 3:18
For those saying that Hamilton should rightfully be excluded from any punishment because of his superiors, think about this: Hamilton is the current World Champion, his entire life is racing, and when the stewards asked him these questions he knew they were going after Truli. He consciously LIED which resulted in a predictable penalty for Jarno. He did all that just to gain one position he KNEW was not his to take. It was a team mistake and it was completely unjustified to lie about it. McLaren and Lewis were not facing a penalty, Jarno was.
Here is part of a FIA statement taken of of F1Live.com:
” * on 2 April, 2009, at a second hearing before the stewards of the Australian Grand Prix, (meeting in Malaysia) made no attempt to correct the untrue statement of 29 March but, on the contrary, continued to maintain that the statement was true, despite being allowed to listen to a recording of the team instructing Hamilton to let Trulli past and despite being given more than one opportunity to correct its false statement;
* on 2 April, 2009, at the second stewards’ hearing, procured its driver Hamilton to continue to assert the truth of the false statement given to the stewards on 29 March, while knowing that what he was saying to the stewards was not true.”
McLaren will have a hard time defending why they lied about it twice. The first time could be brushed off as a quick decision in the heat of the moment. But the second meeting was just telling the girl “it wasn’t me” when she cought you butt naked banging on the bathroom floor. THe FIA doesn’t love McLaren so better judgement should have been used.
Gman
8th April 2009, 3:32
Terrible song to quote ;)
David
8th April 2009, 3:19
Lynn, you are probably the first person to be open minded about this. Most people dismiss what I’ve said because they have a simplistic view of prejudice and are quick to make accusations of playing the race card without even thinking about it.
Beleive me, I would rather not be talking about this stuff, but I always give my honest opinion regardless of what people think of me. It is almost as if accusing someone of “playing the race card” is a powerful way of getting someone to stop talking about race – It makes them feel guilty. But it won’t work on me.
Lynn
8th April 2009, 3:40
David, it’s dismissed because most people don’t want to confront it. By saying someone is “Playing the race card” it lefts them off the hook, it’s about power. David, I have been around long enough to know what’s going on. I’m not afraid to confront the issue, and when I have, the perpetrator turns themselves into the victim it happens all the time.
S Hughes
8th April 2009, 13:15
Make that 2 of us David. The “playing the race card” and “PC gone mad” phrases are used to stop any accusations of racism. Very convenient.
Polak
8th April 2009, 3:30
David: I agree that everybody is naturally racist. A person may be open to other races and do no harm but in their thought process race is clearly noticed no matter what one says. Its just life and not a major problem.
The bad racism is when people throw bananas at someone or deliberately and unjustly go after them. I’m sure this has happened to Lewis many times. I’m sure it has happened to Kubica many times because of his nationality. The fact is that in the case of Melbourne 2009 Hamilton, no matter what his excuse, lied to get his colleague, penalized and to have personal gain. I don’t think race played a role in this matter, and I don’t think it will in the rulings.
Gman
8th April 2009, 3:39
Before we get to the matter at hand (the racing and involved dealings) let me say that I personally believe that the racism and subconscious thought arguments is the biggest bunch of hot air I have ever read, anywhere….
Hamilton is a racing driver, competing for a team in the world championship- it doesn’t make a difference if he’s white, black, yellow, or blue- the punishment is going to be the same. If you want to talk about the FIA being tainted against McLaren, fine- there’s more than enough evidence to discuss that. But please, for the sake of your reputation, leave the stuff about haircuts and all for the gossip rags, because Max and Company won’t give a care if he walks in with a crew cut or mullet or afro…
Now, as for the hearing and penalty, I believe McLaren and Hamilton have been punished enough for this mess- they lost the points they were misleading in gaining. Perhaps a reasonable fine is in order, but nothing more. That said, I doubt Max and his people are going to go light on them- it may be even more spectacular than the 2007 fiasco.
David
8th April 2009, 3:39
Polak, the question is can this thought process be changed or is it asking for too much. Is it just something we have to live with?
I think as long these thought processes don’t drive Hamilton out of F1, then I’m prepared to accept them. As long as they don’t have any serious implications beyond trolling on F1 forums.
teamorders
8th April 2009, 3:41
I should probably clarify what I meant by a “fake apology”. It’s when you say sorry for something but you blame someone else for what happened, rather than taking actually taking responsibility for your own actions. That’s not a apology, that’s just a PR exercise to shift blame.
Almost all public apologies by politians/sportspeople/celebs/etc are fake anyway, so it’s not that surprising….
Owen
8th April 2009, 4:05
Yet another article is hijacked by the anti-Hamilton brigade. It’s getting pathetic the amount of comments proposing various penalties for Hamilton. Most of which are borne clearly of dislike/hatred for him personally rather than rational thinking.
I’d like any of these commentors to show me which of the list of charges are directed at Lewis Hamilton. The FIA clearly believe his part in this to be done.
Finally, Todd,
When I was in my early 20s I toed the company line which meant a customer got less than they should. Nothing illegal, just being economical with the truth. I wasn’t happy about it, but I did it as they were paying my wages and I was young, new and wasn’t going to challenge anything. I’d do things differently now.
So how would you have made an example of me? Banned me from working for a year? Chopped my hands off? Put me in the stocks for a few days?
As far as I’m concerned, they tried to pull a fast one to gain a point. They got caught, lost all points and their reputations are shot to pieces. Let’s all move on.
As for the anti-Hamilton stuff. What is that really all about? Attacks on his personality, his fans, his father (one of many fathers regularly seen in the paddock), his moving from Stevenage to Switzerland(?!?!). It’s constant on just about every F1 article all over the internet!
David
8th April 2009, 4:33
Owen, it is racism pure and simple. You are not the first person to be puzzled by the relentless Hamilton bashing all over the internet. In fact I remember him being bashed before he even got a seat in F1.
todd
8th April 2009, 5:56
your racist for thinking owen is racist.
steve
9th April 2009, 11:03
I agree – the quiet dislike people have for Hamilton is the unease they feel with a confident professional black man. he is supposed to posture about like a boxer or a rap gangsta to fit the stereotype.
That being said this is nothing to do with him – the screaming hysteria is the revenge being taken for the Max Moseley scandal – we will see the end of the McLaren name within 24 months as the team become Merc. Ron will be removed from the scene and the score will be settled.
steve
9th April 2009, 11:06
Todd – It would be better to read what Owen and David actually say before coming in with your flip comments.
teamorders
8th April 2009, 4:59
I just read this extract….
“This afternoon McLaren and former sporting director, Dave Ryan, have formally parted company. As a result, he is no longer an employee of any of the constituent companies of the McLaren Group.”
I think that’s an absolutely terrible result. Unfortunately for David Ryan he didn’t get to give his own press conference to give his side of events.
Kasper
8th April 2009, 5:29
I think this whole issue is completely overblown.
Drivers always paint themselves in the best light – getting defensive is a natural response. What sanctions were taken against Schumacher when he parked it in Monaco? He was still allowed to race. There was no WMSC meeting.
If the FIA say that Ryan being a McLaren employee made McLaren responsible for his actions, then surely Schumacher being an employee made Ferrari equally responsible for Schumacher?
And ditto for Toyota and their illegal rear wing. Why werent they excluded altogether? Does anyone actually buy Toyota’s excuse as to why it happened? Yet their explanation is accepted even though its ridiculous.
It strikes me that once again, the extra-strength magnifying glass is pulled out to examine McLaren.
Perhaps the new Concorde Agreement should allow teams to drag the FIA into the courts for bringing the sport into disrepute. Mosley’s buttocks certainly did, yet no action taken. This sport grows ever more tedious lately…
teamorders
8th April 2009, 5:35
I agree, this is part of a power struggle between the FIA and FOTA, with the FIA are using McLaren as proxy for FOTA.
Sean
8th April 2009, 6:30
all i can say is that if i was 24 years old and made 20+million and my boss told me to lie…..i would. everyone lies, hamilton just got caught. i think that there is more to this story though. i want to know why mclaren lied when they know that the radio transmissions are recorded, and can be reviewed by the fia…..
IDR
8th April 2009, 7:11
You will be surprised of how many people will not lie for a sum of money. Thanks god there are lot of people who still has character enough for not behaving that way.
By the way, all of us know now you will become a liar for 20+million… what about 1 Million? and 100 bucks? (I love haggling!)
Bob
8th April 2009, 10:53
I worked in a Bank. I was required, in fact, it was manditory (not in so many words of course) to ‘lie’ or ‘mislead’ customers about the manner in which bank charges were debited from their accounts. Suppose i had walked into my bosses office one day and told him that i just didn’t want to keep making up stories to justify charges. I would be where i am now…out of a job. Don’t kid yourselves people, if Hamilton was told by his team to do something, he will damn well do it. jUST LIKE YOU WOULD.
sumedh
10th April 2009, 2:21
I agree with Sean; I would do what my employer tells me. If that means; LIE, so be it.
But just that majority of people would have done the same; cannot constitute as defence argument for Hamilton’s actions. It is still cheating.
I don’t know if they fully deserve the punishment or not. But Mclaren will deserve at least some part of the punishment handed out to them. I will reserve my judgement after the hearing.
Mikkowl
8th April 2009, 6:37
McLaren guilty – Probably yes. To what degree is uncertain, but the competition is so fierce and the environment is a cut-throat one. Incidents from the past come to mind.
Hamilton’s role – Either came up with the deception or assisted in it. A certain amount of bitterness of having let go of third place unecessarily is a good incentive.
McLaren’s punishment – Disqualification from the race in question is enough for me. I believe a juicy fine will be imposed.
Racism involved – Nonsense. And the ‘bashing of Hamilton’ is definitely often due to his inconsiderate reckless attitude (this was an issue in the season of 2008, involving safety) and what he’s allegedly done now. I’m sure there’s a handful of racists out there, but it’s not the FIA or the majority of comments.
McLaren being targeted – Complete nonsense as well.
Dave Ryan as a scapegoat – From interviews with drivers who worked with him in the past at McLaren, they say he’s one of the ‘goodie guys’ of the sport, so using that as a character witness, I doubt he is responsible for what happened. But McLaren must wash their hands by blaming someone and cutting them lose, or McLaren’s reputation/image will be tarnished (bad for sponsors, merchandise etc).
I don’t cheer for any team in particular and have no bias, unlike the obvious huge amounts floating around the comments here. That’s psychology for you. I’ve been keeping up with the information presented and all seems just so far in this matter.
Pink Peril
8th April 2009, 6:41
Pity that all of this spotlight shining on Lewis & McLaren has taken the focus from where it should be – the FIAsco and Stewards that caused this whole mess by not solving the problem on the spot in Melbourne.
And once again, McLaren look like the bad guys. This is just Spygate Part II as far as I am concerned, with the added bonus of trying to drive a wedge in FOTA.
Just because someone shouts the loudest, doesn’t mean that they have won the argument.
patrickl
8th April 2009, 11:54
That the focus is now off of the “FIAsco” is (in my mind) exactly why this siuation is being blown out of proportions.
Ronman (ex Ron)
8th April 2009, 7:52
HI there,
this incident and the storm that is still raging is the first time i get so worked up about F1’s shenanigans.
my point in the matter is that McLaren and Hamilton have it coming. regardless if they fired Ryan. i’ve been trying to stress a point since this whole thing started.
lets suppose Ryan did think of it by himself, how daft is Hamilton to accept to go along. contract or no contract, ethics is what this is about, ESPECIALLY knowing that he has given a recorded interview just moments before. he could have easily said, listen ryan, this wont work, i already gave an interview saying that you guys told me to let him past.
ryan is described as on outstanding guy, he would of then most possibly complied with this little hurdle, and his mischievous thoughts would have died there and then. this is where the blame lies 100% with Hamilton.
he knows his team is still suffering from the 2007 saga, he knows the he is lying, so why do it? threfore he should be penalized for that lapse of thought.
as a an F1 driver you make lightning quick decisions to make you win a race, not loose it. this proves that Hamilton was at fault intentionally, he wasn’t misled or anything. He is the WC, he could of easily made things right and assumed control.
and comapring this to Schumi’s Monaco incident is not plausible, there is a chance Schumi was telling the truth, but only he knew, he wasn’t told by Todt to crash deliberately at 16KPH. (as far as we know)
I know sometimes in sport, athletes make mistakes, most of them are young and get to the point where they want to win at almost any price. but Hamilton took the opportunity to cheat by one lousy point in a season where he knows for sure (because of a crap car) that he wont be able to challenge for a championship where 1 point can make the difference. And he knew there were records of the opposite. but regardless he did it anyway….
if i were on the WMSC council i would be the judge that finds Hamilton guilty of stupidity and i find McLaren guilty of being a stack of cheating weasels….
i would relegate McLaren to GP2 status and Hamilton gets banned for at least a few races.
this might seem harsh, but i wouldn’t oppose it if it were given to any team or driver if they were blatantly caught cheating and lying. sometimes you get away with it, and good on them (I’m not condoning it) but in the end, someone who knows would want to get it out of his chest and that team’s or driver’s memory would be harmed for ever.
Take Ferrari’s case with Barichello, the day will come where dear Rubens will tell the stories that happened at Ferrari in the Schumi days, and although it will make us feel sorry for Rubens, we will know how much of an Ass Schumi and Ferrari were and then we can really judge their real worth as sportsmen…
Polak
8th April 2009, 8:01
David: To answer your question, no I don’t think people are going to ever be truly color blind and I don’t think that there is a need for it. I believe most people are reasonable. But what you say about people’s subconscious racism may go both ways. Some may feel that they need to defend a minority race from racism that isn’t even there. Thats actually racism as well, just not the kind that will get you flamed.
Dave Ryan is an interesting case as well. What kind of team is McLaren? They immediately sever all ties with an employee that they have worked with for decades. Are they desperate? Can the team not be responsible for its actions as a team? Fess up and say you messed up. But how do you fess up to such a stupid and blatant lie? I guess they needed to burn someone and Ryan was cheaper than Hamilton.
To all defending Hamilton based on his age, pay, and appeasement, please realize that Hamilton is World Champion. The person writing about falling in line with company politics to keep a job and appease management was not World Champion. Hamilton does not need to suck up to the bosses. He needs to be a proper race driver. So it is entirely his fault for lying, especially in a situation where he wasn’t going to cause the team harm if he told the truth.
zerogee
8th April 2009, 8:17
I’m just sick of long drawn-out FIA decision and investigations. It’s so obvious it’s full of lawyers, they can’t do anything without drawing it out.
They got done, let it be. McLaren screwed up big time and one person has already paid for it with their job. Lewis lost his points (I still can’t get over how dumb they were to do this) and all-in-all, look dumb.
However, as Keith has pointed out, this sort of stuff goes on and I’d add that it goes on all the time. Drivers must regularly mislead the stewards with complicity from their teams. Why aren’t drivers who are to be interviewed kept away from teams to avoid this? Why are they allowed to ‘get their stories straight’ before being led in to the stewards? Don’t get me wrong, just because they can doesn’t mean they should (I’m not angry, son, I’m just disappointed…).
As somebody else said, it seems vindictive. Let it go, FIA. The damage is done. All they risk doing is making McLaren into the victim, rather than Trulli.
ceedas
8th April 2009, 8:18
I’d be surprised if the punishment is any more than a fine (and maybe another fairly hefty one), but if it’s more, then I too feel that Hamilton should take responsibility for his actions and shoulder some of the blame. I really don’t like the way that he seems to have extricated himself from this whole affair and portrayed himself as the victim. Trulli, Toyota and possibly FOTA are the victims.
DGR-F1
8th April 2009, 8:32
It would be interesting to know what Norbert Haug and Mercedes make of the situation. This is the second year in a row when their main team on the international racing stage has been shown up as incompetant, if not worse. Surely this will damage the relationship between the two corporations? They were in support of Big Ron last year, but do they feel the same bond with Whitmarsh, and even Hammy?
And if Mercedes withdraw their support from McLaren, would they also contemplate withdrawing from F1 as well?
The FIA will have to be careful if they do hand out a stiff penalty again, it may reach farther than they expect….
steve
8th April 2009, 9:06
This is Max’s revenge for spank-gate. Ron Dennis has learned you never never mess with the aristocracy. Max said he knew who ‘done him over’ – well dodgy init?
Erico
8th April 2009, 9:18
What’s at stake here? the livelihoods of around 1000 human beings working for MM in England plus some more in Germany. A grim scenario is Fia decides to punish MM severly (huge fine plus exclusion in constructors championship), subsequently Mclaren and Mercedes decides they have had enough and quit F1 with immediate effect, after all why continue playing when you are excluded from winning. Consequences? Brown mercedes, Force India are forced to look elsewhere for engine partners(of cause on condition they decide to stay in F1), F1 reduced to 3 manufactures (Ferrari, Renault, Toyota). I hope Fia are sensitive to these possible outcomes given current worldwide financial meltdown. Common sense must prevail before its too late.
Cameron
8th April 2009, 9:44
I don’t care what people say, Lewis still lied. Regardless of who pursuaded him, the choice to lie to stewards was still Lewis’s choice. He didn’t have to follow orders. He’s as much to blame as anyone, and I really can’t see those F1 fans that dislike him ever forgetting about it.
It’s a shame, because he’s a great driver, and I like seeing him in F1. But, switching teams won’t make the public magically forget he lied to the stewards.
Alex P
8th April 2009, 9:51
People need to drop the whole rasism angle of this. Mclaren have 2 drivers.the issue is that Mclaren have been caught red handed there is proof that Mclaren Team lied to the stewards. As for the whole Ferrari favoritism by the FIA is not completely true either. Max and Berni are plating the numbers game. the Flavor of the year is Brawn which is doing exactly what they want(with all due respect to Ross Brawn)A privateer at the front of the grid.
Question: why did Charle whiting only release the saftey car in Oz after Button had pitted?? it followed him out of the pits?????
The diffuser issue could have be resoleved months ago. this will not be over turned as it plays in to Max’s hands and it will take the other team months or even a whole season to catch up. having Ferrari and Mclaren at eh back of the grid to them makes it even more interesting
Oliver
8th April 2009, 10:01
Ryan is the sporting director of the team. As such he should know the regulations. When he told Hamilton to let Trulli past, Hamilton questioned the call. Meaning Lewis was aware of the rules and Ryan didn’t know his job.
Ryan had cost Mclaren a podium position and was thus trying to correct that.
And for those who say drivers have no clause in their contracts, think back to when Alonso and Mclaren parted ways, There was an agreement that Alonso would not say anything about the team, and the team likewise would not say anything about Alonso.
Oliver
8th April 2009, 10:10
Its laughable when people suggest that a 24 year hold would convince a veteran of over 20yrs in the sport to lie.
And this is where the problem is. Why would Hamilton lie, when he had already told the press what happened. If he wanted to lie, he’d have told the press that Trulli passed him under the safety car.
Some even say its Anthony Hamilton that sent Ryan to lie. As far as I’m concerned, its all part of a smear campaign. You don’t have to look to deep to appreciate why people would want to blame this family for what happens in an organization that they have no control over.
PJA
8th April 2009, 10:14
I agree with the article that the FIA seem to be a lot stricter in their punishments these days not only in the courts but also on the track, with more penalties for race incidents. You would think that someone in the FIA likes punishing people or something.
Considering BAR were excluded for 2 races when they were found to have an illegal fuel tank (which could be argued was a lot worse because it was pre-meditated) the only justification for McLaren getting a more severe penalty would be if they say that after ‘spygate’ in 2007 they were warned and so they had no more chances. But if I had to predict the outcome it is not going to be good for McLaren.
Anyone thinking this is the first time something like this has happened are a bit naïve, of course teams and drivers have lied and misled stewards in the past, even if it just a case or saying it wasn’t my fault after a crash, the difference in this case is that the radio transcripts are proof of what was originally said.
If it is true that there are no minutes from the stewards meeting then it really is shocking. If McLaren had not owned up to misleading the stewards the FIA would have no proof about what was said in the meeting and so would have no case at all.
If there are minutes then the question has to be asked why they have not been released to the public considering virtually all the other relevant information has being released so far.
While it is no excuse for what McLaren did, I think this case has shown the stewards at the Melbourne GP to be incompetent. They made the decision to penalise Trulli based only on what McLaren told them without looking at all the available evidence. I have read they had actually viewed the video footage but I would have thought even this showed that Hamilton let Trulli by.
McLaren were very stupid in lying to the stewards over this because if the stewards had bothered to look at all the evidence they had, specifically the radio recordings, then they would have been found out straight away, and considering their history with the FIA the risk was simple not worth the reward of 1 extra point and a podium.
Correct me if I am wrong, but is ‘bringing the sport into disrepute’ just a general charge where the usual argument is they have damaged the sport’s image? If that is the case you could argue a lot more incidents could be charged under this, things that make F1 look a bit amateurish, in the extreme you could say trying to change the way the championship is decided less than 2 weeks before the first race only to discover it is against your own rules, or changing the start time of a GP to a time when it is more likely it will be cut short due to torrential rain and bad light.
S Hughes
8th April 2009, 11:00
It appears that McLaren are guilty of deceiving, but as Keith has pointed out in his article, it is no worse than previous misdemeanours that have not been as heartily condemned by the FIA. It seems McLaren are definitely picked on more harshly, and especially LH. Lewis gave a frank and honest account of his race to a reporter immediately he got out of his car, then was asked to deny letting Trulli through. I can only think that McLaren realised their mistake and thought they should have got 3rd, not thinking properly about the consequences for themselves and Trulli. Stupid mistake, hardly a hanging offence. I think they’ve all been punished enough by the disqualification and the embarrassment of the affair. It does seem though that the FIA and some F1 fans and media want a public flogging, then hanging drawing and quartering, and maybe a beheading before their blood lust is satisfied. Can we just get on with the racing now and forget this vengeful politicking?
KB
8th April 2009, 12:50
I think you need to look at the crime rather than history, after all when a murderer is brought to court, every other murder case in the world is not taken into consideration before punishment is handed out.
I dont ever recall something as serious as this before, afterall, Jarno Trulli was penalised heavily on Dave Ryan AND Lewis Hamiltons lies.
INHO I feel that justification is trying to be given for the crime in this article, and there is never justification for lies, especially at someone elses expense.
Although I dont want to see Mclaren disqualified from the championship ….again, it would not be an unfair punishment, especially given, no attempt was made to correct the error, which in my opinion is a crime equally as shocking as the lies!
Too little too late for Mclaren & Hamilton, and some form of punishment is needed!
KB
8th April 2009, 12:51
@PJA
I would rather have a good half a race with lots of action, than a processional race with no action, half points or not it was a good race.
Captain Caveman
8th April 2009, 13:00
The facts of the matter are that the driver and team and sporting director are at fault.
All three appear to be complicit and none of them took the opportunity to highlight their wrong doing afterwards when it became evident that the innocent parties were excluded Trulli and Toyota.
How can any one of the 3 listed above, not be found guilty by default. Any else would be detrimental to the sport and thus will bring it into further disrepute.
SuperVet2win
8th April 2009, 14:36
I think that one of the reasons that Hamilton is being so harshly treated is that he is the World Champion, he isn’t a boy, and if lies saying that “big bad Dave Ryan” told me to is a weak excuse. I accept that most people lie if there boss tells them too, but Hamilton didn’t have to, he would be accepted in a flash by any team on the paddock if McClaren dropped him.
The big difference I see between what Schumacher and Senna did was that they damaged their own reputations, Hamilton and McClaren basically called Trulli a liar, that isn’t on.
The FIA are a joke yes, but come on, even though they make loads of mistakes, and blow things out of proportion they do have to punish those who they catch cheating. Everybody in F1 cheats, but that’s not an excuse to let off the people they actually catch doing it.
Really McClaren seem just so stupid, they know the FIA are waiting for them to slip up and cheat, they know they know if caught they will be fined hugely for the most minor of transgressions, yet they chose to lie, and Hamilton despite telling the media otherwise lied again on the 2nd of April.
Also I find it insulting that some of those who choose to side with Hamilton claim those critical of him are racist. Did people view what Schumacher did to Villeneuve in 97 as unfair, because of thoughts like “ruthless like his grandfather”, no the viewed it as unfair because they viewed him to have crossed a line, those who supported his actions viewed that he did not. I really don’t understand why anybody would be racist against Kubica, he’s white like the vast majority of the paddock, if people are racists against white people that’s there own problem.
Jamie
8th April 2009, 14:39
Given some of the punishments McLaren and Hamilton were on the receiving end of last season they were understandably going to give the impression they were in the right.
What I still find hard to believe is that the stewards have gotten away totally undamaged and unquestioned in all of this. They should have used the radio and telemetry data to make the correct decision first time. Even if that involved delaying the decision until several days after the race.
In what is supposed to the pinnacle of motor sport, how are stewards able to make decisions based off of a drivers account of events? It’s also worrying that the race director was unavailable during the incident. There should be enough resources and manpower to deal with multiple race incidents.
After putting a pretty poor car in a podium position with a decent drive, disqualifying Hamilton seems like more than enough punishment to me.
John H
8th April 2009, 15:00
“he’s tarnished ryan’s image” ???
Isn’t Ryan a grown man too? What evidence do you have that Hamilton has tarnished Ryan’s image, as opposed to him doing it himself. I think he felt guilty for asking Hamilton to let Trulli past, and then having made the mistake, (he made the mistake initially, not Hamilton remember) tried to make up for it dishonestly.
I’m not defending Hamilton, he did VERY wrong and should be punished too, but please get an objective comment together instead of a continuous stream of ranting insults.
Richard C
8th April 2009, 16:05
I believe the issue is that by lieing McLaren showed a lack of respect bordering on contempt for the stewards. Their defence while being literally caught redhanded was more than unwise it was ridiculous. They took the stewards for fools and the rest of the F1 community too. I think McLaren will at least be barred from the manufacturers championship (again) while allowing their drivers to compete, though they might not take Hamilton’s ‘innocence’ for granted. I think his threat to quit is an unsubtle way for putting pressure on the FIA not to ban him. They will be fined an amount which bank rolls the FIA for a year or two (again). Of more concern to them if the FIA take even stronger action will their key sponsors eg Vodafone want to be involved with them for much longer? McLaren have brought the FIA into disrepute but the damage to McLaren’s reputation is total. I would not mess with Vodafone as Eddie Jordan will agree.
Jamie
8th April 2009, 16:33
Perhaps I missed something, but I don’t ever remember Hamilton threatening to quit F1!
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
8th April 2009, 19:59
It was reported in the Sunday Times, McLaren denied it.
Phast
8th April 2009, 16:40
Last season was great, this season looks to be even better… so why oh why do the FIA try to ruin it all the time.
McLaren/Hamilton have been disqualified from the race, can’t it just be left at that!
As friend and non-F1 fan of mine said to me yesterday… “the sport is a joke isn’t it, the race means nothing, isn’t it all sorted out afterwards in court”
He has a good point, to the partisan fan, F1 is a joke!
Come on FIA stop throwing your weight around and do what is best for the sport not your inflated egos.
Macca.
8th April 2009, 16:54
Why is everyone getting carried away over what happened in OZ? He lied to the FIA, so what? Race teams battle each other on and off track, if you can get ahead you do it. It didn’t pay off and they were penalised. As for Max Mosley didnt he lie when he got caught getting whipped by hookers in a sado fest, by saying it didnt happen. But I dont recall him having to say ‘why he lied’ though he is president of the ‘cannot do no wrong’ FIA. Dont know about you but that is more damaging to F1 then what Hamilton and race engineer Dave Ryan did.
As for mclaren being summoned by the FIA, it is a witch hunt pure and simple, not for Hamilton ( Bernie would not see a world champion dragged through the dirt, bad for business)but for mclaren as Max hates Ron Dennis the CEO, for confrontations years earlier. The real reason mclaren are summoned to court is because they made the FIA stewards look like incompetent morons for penalising Truli (which they are). So to try to save face they are punishing mclaren for it and will receive another nice cash injection from it.
Mclaren has been punished already for christ sake, by disqualification from a superb drive in Oz and Hamilton’s grovelling apology (genuine or not it was still embarrassing for him). But I think the relationship berween Hamilton and mclaren is stronger then most other driver-team relationships in the paddock and he will see out his contract and possibly longer.
As for Mercedes-Benzn they are the major shareholder of mclaren and have forthcoming supercar projects coming. They will not pull out of F1 nor leave mclaren, who have a great reputation for innovation and winning championships in Formula 1.
I’m disgusted with how mclaren are treated. Behind Ferrari they are the second oldest surviving team and a truly great British team like Williams. But for some reason unlike Ferrari, they are targeted by the FIA constantly and yet no authority hilights how other teams do not receive the same standard. If this was Renault or Ferrari the punishment received would be it.
antonyob
8th April 2009, 17:23
….so they’re punished for lying. now, they have to explain why they lied and will probably be punished for that. Id argue they should be punished again for providing a culture where lying would be even considered. Maybe a fine and ban for everyone at Mclaren who will be called up individually over the next 10 years until the FIA have stamped on them so much no one has the energy to fight. We need to get back to racing.
Oliver
8th April 2009, 17:40
While I do indeed feel sorry for Ryan, it is on record that he was the first to be questioned before Hamilton was questioned, so even if Hamilton is the DEVIL poking him with a trident, or that devil thing, Ryan had the chance not to lie, he could have allowed his decency prevail. Don’t forget, he didn’t know what the outcome would be, perhaps Mclaren would have just kept their rightful place and Trulli kept 4th.
Had Hamilton contradicted Ryan, Mclaren would still be in this very situation they find themselves in, and Hamilton would be responsible for taking them there. Does that remind anyone of Alonso’s predicament?
Kathryn S
8th April 2009, 20:07
OK, let me get this straight. The black-hating, anti-McLaren stewards took the word of a black McLaren driver and another McLaren employee and penalized the Italian driver for a Japanese team because, oh yeah, they hate McLaren and don’t trust black drivers.
And Hamilton was pressured into lying because if he didn’t, well McLaren would certainly take his drive away from him as he must obey team orders. So once his lie is exposed and his team mislead him…well, he couldn’t drive for them as they are cheats and liars. Hmmm, funny that you get the same result–Hamilton out of McLaren. In the first instance, though, he stands up for himself and refuses to lie…in the second instance he lies and then distances himself from the team once he gets caught out…that’s what troubles me.
IDR
8th April 2009, 21:19
Hi Kathryn S,
Nice to see you around here.
Sei
8th April 2009, 20:28
Wonder what Toyota’s and Trulli’s view on this is. Cos, Y’know, I’d be pretty ****** off if some team lied and I got the penalty for it.
On another note, totally tired and over this whole thing. They can’t disqualify Hamilton from the WDC, it’ll totally and utterly ruin this season and we all know money makes the wheels spin round. People should just get over it already. Dislike the team and this whole situation but does anyone think F1 would be better sans a team? Also sick and tired about how people keep drawing Ferrari into this debate and leaving Toyota out of it. There wasn’t even a red car in sight (or on the track).
Sush Meerkat
8th April 2009, 21:09
Regarding the woking squad getting pulled up on several occassions thanks the to stewards, I was chatting to my next door neighbour, and I informed him that its a different set of stewards for each race.
To which he replied
“so different people keep coming to the same conclusion?”
Poetry.
as with regards to the current predicament they are in, they are in for a fine, a big one, if the FIA are in a deficit of monies this is the prime time for them to get in a great big load of wonga…. and penalties they incur will be smoke and mirrors in front of the money the FIA desperatly want/need.
NDINYO
8th April 2009, 21:20
Strangely enough the possibility of McLaren ceasing to exist as a team and Lewis going into premature retirement does not seem so scary as in 2007. I wish FIA could just get over it quickly so we can switch to new teams and drivers to follow.
Stuart H
8th April 2009, 21:32
I feel slightly ashamed, contributing to this farce but nonetheless i think that some common sense should prevail.
Lets look at the definitions…
Disrepute – Damage to or loss of reputation.
Sport – an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature such as racing.
Now consider the allegation…
Bringing the sport into disrepute
There is so much going on at a much higher level than many of you can’t even comprehend. Now, don’t we all feel a bit stupid for getting all worked up about this?
Now, riddle me this….
Mclaren are the only team to turn up in Melbourne with a ‘dodgy’ diffuser which breaks the spirit of the new regulations, effectively bringing the sport into disrepute. What do the stewards do? I think you know the answer.
Decisions are made at a high level to attract maximum attention to the sport, hence increase revenues. Why do you think they take so long? They are laughing all the way to the bank whilst you sit at your computer screens like shrivelled scrotums. Now who are the clever ones again?
F1Yankee
9th April 2009, 1:04
you bring up a good point. the people making decisions are are graduates of fine schools and spent much of their lives dealing with politics on every scale, many billions of dollars, and simultaneously creating and circumventing the rules. then again, that description also fits george w.
Macademianut
8th April 2009, 22:08
The problem is that “what is cheating?” If I run a wing that I say is according to specification; and after qualifying FIA finds out that it is not according to specification, then doesn’t that constitute lying? If the testing was not conducted, it would have been let go. If you ask the teams, “are you running the spec wings during qualifying?” they would respond “yes”.
When you actually check the wing and not ask the teams whether they are running the right wing or not, why not look at the data rather than asking the driver/team manager what they did?
FIA is going great length to cover up their mess. The stewards did not do their job right.
Garry
9th April 2009, 10:10
On a slightly different note I wonder if we will ever hear Dave Ryans side of the story or whether he has been gagged with a serious amount of money…
Rob
9th April 2009, 13:28
What an absolute load of rubbish you people think. Anyone of you in the same position would have followed the “company” line. I have. Even as a teenager repackaging out of date food at a supermarket ! If any of you were at all honest you would admit the same. The FIA I fear will use this to destroy Mclaren. What a shame ! Do any of you really believe that any 100 metre runners running under 10 seconds are NOT on drugs ?? All teams try to tip the scales to their advantage. It hardly seems fair that some teams are meted out no punishment and others are driven to the point of quitting the sport.
dmw
9th April 2009, 14:18
Bernie is now talking about a season-long ban for “stealling a point” and money which is “fraud.” Again, I ask what an ordinary person would call it when you lose your place through clear application of the rules, then retake it, then say nothing until you are punished. The defense is the con man’s defense of that his victim was fully convinced of the ploy. Trulli does not smell like a rose. I know Civilians chafe in the confines of precedent, but if the penalties are going to be for “stealing” points or, alternativley, “fraud”, or whatever, lets have a fully parsimonious opinion on elements of such violations lets see them followed.
Clare msj
9th April 2009, 17:43
Hmmm, some very interesting posts. It’s not often there is such a massive range of opinions on a punishment – this varies from nothing at all, to kicking out of the sport – cant get more extreme than that!!
Me personally, i dont think they need to necessarily be punished any more than they have already – although if something like a two race ban were to be given (which is what was given to BAR with their illegal fuel tanks – and that was premeditated breaking of the rules, this by all accounts was spur of the moment, although affected another team, whereas BAR didnt) then i wouldnt be completely against that, but I certainly dont think they deserve owt more than that! If they do get a ban though, I think it will be very unfair on Kovalainen, who has had nothing to do with this – unless Kovi’s car can race, and he can score but the team cant or summat like that – dunno if thats possible.
As for those bringing the racism into it – it always confuses me – are those allegations based on an assumption of the skin colour of those criticising Hamilton? Because if it is, surely that is racism in itself, assuming that someone who is not black dislikes Hamilton because of their colour. Would the same allegations be made of someone who shares a skin colour with Hamilton?
I am not a fan of Hamilton, but fairs fair, I beleive enough is enough with ‘liegate’. But I dont like the way that by choosing not to be a fan of Hamilton I am assumed to not like him because of his colour (or even more strangely, his hair type!) this is a sweeping generalisation based on the actions of a relatively small minority. Just because a very small number of people have used racist actions against Hamilton (and I am in no way condoning it, I think it is disgusting) does not mean that everyone who dislikes him does so for that reason. I dont get accused of being anti-Australian for not liking Webber, or anti-Italian for not liking Trulli, or anti-German for not liking big bro Schumacher – so why is my dislike of Hamilton any different? Some drivers I like, some drivers I dont, there is very little logic in why I like who I do – I beleive these things just happen – why else would have dedicated eleven years of my life supporting Ralf Schumacher!!
Gman
9th April 2009, 20:04
Very good summary Clare, except for the Ralf part ;)
Leaf
9th April 2009, 17:56
$200 million US fine.
Exclusion from the next 3 races.
Ron has to write “Lieing is not allowed in F1.” 1 million times on the blackboard.
MartinWR
9th April 2009, 19:30
I read many comments on this sorry saga with utter disbelief. The underlying assumption behind some letters seems to be that F1 cannot survive without Lewis Hamilton. Give me strength, F1 existed for decades before little Lewis was even a gleam in papa’s eye, and it will continue for decades after he hangs his boots up.
Certainly he brings a lot of publicity to F1, but is it for the right reasons? Should F1 be a “sport” which is characterised by unsporting shenanigans and the like simply because those shenanigans bring in billions for Ecclestone? I know publicity means money, yes, and Ecclestone apparently thinks there is no such thing as bad publicity, but is F1 really any better for all the billions, yes billions, that have been ploughed into it over the years? Honda alone reputedly spent more than two billion, for virtually no significant return. All those billions never made the racing more exciting. Most years and most races, F1 racing tends to be processional, mainly of interest to petrolheads and techno buffs.
The Malaysian race was a very good example of what F1 has descended to. For no more than unabashedly money-grabbing reasons it was held at a time, late afternoon, when the locally prevailing weather conditions virtually guaranteed that it would end as a total unmitigated disaster halfway through, if not much earlier. It’s lucky that no-one was injured as a result as well, because the conditions were no less than diabolical for the drivers.
Anyway, I cannot begin to imagine what the other F1 drivers think of Hamilton’s lies which originally bought him an extra point, and cost Trulli six points (until eventually corrected), and also made Trulli look like a liar. For the life of me I cannot see how they can possibly view him with anything other than contempt for that behaviour. And he is supposed to be “world champion” as well, a role model!
On top of that, in order presumably to save the sport from the calamity of losing this gilded youth, the WCMS have decided not to even investigate him for lying. The excuse for not doing so is the assertion from McLaren that they told him to lie. Yet McLaren have lied about everything else, so how can the WMSC possibly use that statement as the very basis for the structure of this investigation? The very fact that McLaren have managed to effectively excluded Dave Ryan from the hearing (because they sacked him) stinks to high heaven. What on earth are they frightened that he might say to the WMSC? Is it possible that he might even say that he didn’t tell Hamilton to lie, or something similarly earth-rending, which might even result in the imminent destruction of the whole solar system? Whatever they are trying to hide, the whole of the “sport” hierarchy are clearly unable to contemplate an outcome which would involve actually punishing a grown man, who unbelievably is supposed to be a “world champion” ae well, for telling lies, or untruths, porkies, or misspeakings, or whatever politically correct gloss you care to put on what he did.
Sri
13th April 2009, 8:04
Bravissimo!!!
The Limit
9th April 2009, 20:48
The punishment handed out to McLaren, whatever it maybe, means nothing compared to the damage done to its credibility as a team. The same applies to Lewis Hamilton, and he knows it!
This will linger like a black cloud over the rest of Hamilton’s career. His integrity as a person has been called into question, and everytime he becomes involved in a controversial situation, his views and opinions will not carry as much weight.
You only have to look at other sports, like football, for a comparison. The referees know exactly which players to watch and which ones not to, the ones more likely to dive than others. They just know, certain people carry with them that reputation.
Lewis Hamilton set out his stall early. He made it quite clear that he was out to win, no matter what, and took no prisoners in the process. There is nothing wrong with that at all, it is in his nature, and that is just that.
The first corner incident at Fuji last year was a classic Hamilton moment, braking so late in an effort to pass Kimi he nearly took half the field into the boonies! He has that confidence, that arrogance, and sometimes it comes back to bite him.
I just don’t buy the fact that Dave Ryan was completely to blame in this shambles, and Whitmarsh can
say whatever he likes, it just does not add up. Hamilton had a choice at Albert Park, and he chose to withold information in order to gain an extra point.
If the decision was so ‘uncomfortable’, why not tell the truth and keep a certain fourth place. If McLaren kick up a fuss, so what! Would they fire Hamilton if he
disobeyed team orders? Would Whitmarsh fire the current World Champion? Ofcourse not!
The only outcome of this is McLaren’s exclusion from the 2009 constructors championship.
Oliver
9th April 2009, 21:37
MartinWR,
You may need to read what Ralf Schumacher had to say about the affair. Ralf a recent F1 pilot is of the view that this is a fairly common thing. The team often comes up with the line the drivers have to stick with.
I’m amazed people keep saying that a man with over 20years in the sport, who knows all the intricacies and the politics would be blameless in the matter. Ryan has the experience, and most of you should be ashamed for making him appear to be the naive individual who went on with this reluctantly.
As far as I’m concerned either of 2 thing happened.
1) The team arrived at the decision to withhold information and Ryan conveyed that information to the driver.
2)Ryan realizing he had cost Mclaren a podium decided not to reveal that he had radioed that Trulli be let past.
Ryan was the first to be questioned by the stewards, everyone seems to want to forget that.
Hamilton’s driving doesn’t make him a cheat. How many times did Damon Hill crash into Micheal Schumacher taking both out of the race? Did that make him a cheat?
CeeVee777
9th April 2009, 22:11
What everybody seems to be overlooking in all the fuss about who said what to whom is the huge hole in the FIA processes for controlling a race. There is no-one who seems to have the responsibility or authority to determine what the correct order is behind the safety car whilst the safety car is still on track. The rationale for the safety car is to neutralise the racing so that the incident can be safely dealt with. Why then can’t, for instance, the nearest timing loop be used to determine race order and this is the order that the cars will restart irrespective of any pit stops or off-track excursions. The FIA need to come up with a simple and definitive process for determining and organising the order of the race cars behind the safety car that can be quickly transmitted to the teams. The safety car shouldn’t be withdrawn until the cars are in the correct order. It shouldn’t be left up to the teams to try and second-guess an after-race stewards decision.
SYM
9th April 2009, 23:00
Ok this is late, but i feel i ought to post an explanation to my rants. The case for ‘racism against Lewis and McLaren’ is not a simple one, and boys/girls in Gorilla suits is too easy an example to point to, so is the various anecdotal evidence in terms media coverage and unfair penalties and other off shoots (LG in Tag Hauer out)… ok i’m rambling, the point is i believe, and i’m not the only one, that Lewis and McLaren are not given equal treatment, or at least they haven’t in the past, and that is not sporting. The current situation is a result of past abuse by FIA, where this time McLaren has gone the extra mile to stay out of trouble and found themselves dropped in it, FIA decision to push Trulli back, and then complied with the FIA decision, again in order to avoid farther antagonism; and we know the result.
The FIA is incompetent, malicious and is the real source of trouble here, as well as being responsible for pushing a highly respected man like Dave Ryan to commit a mistake under duress and force him into early retirement as well as attempting to destroy the reputation and career of a great racer; Lewis Hamilton. The reason they keep doing this is because they can, because nobody says anything. I love this sport and i’m sick and tired of this garbage and all i’m saying is if the fans get that message to Bernie and his MaFIA that we are tired of the behind the scenes rubbish, then maybe we can get to enjoy what we came to enjoy…. racers putting on great show on a level playing field!
SYM
9th April 2009, 23:02
Or maybe we get what deserve
scunnyman
9th April 2009, 23:58
WHY DO MOST PEOPLE HERE THINK THAT, JUST BECAUSE DAVE RYAN WAS FIRED BY MCLAREN THAT CANNOT BE CALLED BEFORE THE WMSC.
CRAZY……………………………
The Limit
10th April 2009, 1:09
@Oliver.
I don’t really think anybody is suggesting that Ryan is an innocent party here. Its just hard to believe that this disastrous decision was Dave Ryan’s alone.
Lets not forget 2007’s spy scandal. Serious questions were asked at the time about how much top McLaren people like Ron Dennis and Martin Whitmarsh knew about the stolen Ferrari data. The way the story was conveyed, one was led to believe that Mike Coughlin was the only real McLaren employee responsible of wrong doing. This was, and still is, incredibly hard to believe.
The response to the spy scandal is remarkably simular to the Australian debacle. Ryan, like Coughlin, takes the bullet and interteam stability and order are
restored. Fines were handed out, and almost certainly will be in this case, but the leadership at McLaren will remain untouched.
The truth of the matter is that McLaren, as a team, knew what they were doing. Ryan may well have been the man to inform Hamilton of what to say, but that does not mean that it was his sole idea.
To use Martin Brundle’s words ‘temptation got the better of them’, and I agree with his opinion. Dave Ryan is as guilty as Lewis Hamilton, and certainly as guilty as Martin Whitmarsh. I would have more respect for McLaren if Whitmarsh had followed through with his idea of offering his head on a silver platter.
At the end of the day, he is incharge of the team, not Dave Ryan. The buck stops with him and only him.
Oliver
10th April 2009, 2:04
THE LIMIT
It’s a good thing you mentioned the 2007 spy scandal. In that instance, Coughlan was suspended and remained suspended for an extended duration. This would imply there was some Mclaren staff involvement in the spy scandal. However, Ryan was sacked just a few days after this affair came to light. You don’t just throw away a respected member of staff that has worked for over 30years.
Another point, the drivers are managed, they hardly go to stewards without a senior member of staff to accompany them. They are often briefed on what they may and may not say. The key issue here is if Ryan improvised on the agreed statements to be presented.
I also have the opinion that Mclaren has a void between its management and the operating officers.
kaushal
10th April 2009, 6:53
Dave Ryan and Lewis deliberately lied to FIA stewards.. SO expecting some kind of ban or punishment on 14th April
F14EVA
10th April 2009, 11:24
Having read and followed the unfolding of the event over the past 2 weeks my feelings are that Mclaren and LH will get the book thrown at them. Unfairly of course but I guess we have to prepare ourselves for this saga to continue, watch the headlines move to Tuesday’s “diffuser” meeting then hear Ferrari moan and groan as the diffuser’s will be allowed to remain, Chinese GP then Liargate!
The politics in this sport are becoming ridiculous, how many of you watched the Malaysian GP and then checked 24 hours later that the result remaind the same and that no one was punished??
Back to “Liargate” I feel Mclaren will be excuded from Constructors Championship, 10 miliion Euro Fine, Lewis reprimand i.e. do it again and you will be banned for 12 months! – He will still be able to compete in driver’s championship as ratings would decline sharply, the FIA will hang them out to dry, and Max would have finally got his revenge on Ron Dennis.
MartinWR
10th April 2009, 13:06
Oliver, thanks for the Ralfie info. We inevitably must come back to the question of the Nuremberg Defence, so I have to say that however much McLaren may have pressurised them to lie, it makes no difference, they lied, full stop, and they must be held responsible for lying. Of course in the real world Ryan is being held responsible for what they both did, and paying with his job and good reputation. No doubt McLaren will look after him very handsomely for it, but that’s neither here nor there.
As for the gilded youth, he apparently long ago soared effortlessly above the Sport, and more importantly, above the Sporting Code, and can continue to thumb his nose at anyone who dares to think that he may not be God’s gift to Formula One. After all he’s got a “bigger fan club than all the other drivers in F1” and that’s all that matters, isn’t it?
Lisa Hicks
11th April 2009, 11:47
Could this constant persecution of Hamilton simply be all about revenge, and punishing Ron Dennis for whipping up the tyre scandal in the American Grand Prix a few years ago, before Lewis’ time?
Or, perhaps Ecclestone and Co. want to discredit the sport in the eyes of UK fans so fewer people attend the UK Grand Prix this summer – then he can justify dropping the British Grand Prix completely- which he has wanted to do for many years – because there is MUCH more money to be made abroad?
As a longtime supporter and fan of F1 racing, the Communitarian stewards and their mad “rules” are turning me and all my family right off this sport. It is such a shame too, it could have been so exciting and positive, instead I think they are killing this sport, actually!
Sri
13th April 2009, 8:26
@ Lisa Hicks
Ms. Hicks, i wish it were only that simple. I’am from India and even i want Silverstone to remain on the calendar, i’ll even sign a petition, if there is/ can be one(is someone up to the task???). Then again, McLaren and Hamilton suffer from what is commonly known as “foot in mouth syndrome”. They don’t think before they speak, ironical, given “Ron-Speak” is know to be wise and concise and precise. However, in the spy-gate as well as lie(r)-gate, the same has been evidently lacking from whatever quote coming from the team of his.
Hamilton is no martyr and it is quite evident, that he chose to lie, to gain a position and championship points. He is someone who now is distancing himself from the very team that he called and may be still does “family”! Smells like, erm, BS to me. He seems to me to be a man of convenience than conviction. I’ll say as much for lack of better way to describe behaviour of his in the current scenario.
Yes, even i’m disgusted why a team which is caught red-handed with a design document of opponent teams car is allowed to compete. Not only that, they actually let McLaren use the parts developed for ’08, given that they wouldn’t develop it. Does that sound fair to you? Well, it doesn’t to me!
I respect Sir Frank immensely, for what he stands for and what he believes in. I love the way he operates, always the gentleman. I’m rooting for team Williams to do better, and i sincerely wish they do. Now, if only McLaren were just as clean and may i suggest honest…
JD
11th April 2009, 16:14
Late to the discussion here…
The idea of all the recent WMSC visits by McLaren being correlated to Hamilton’s presence does not prove causation. I’d say it has much more to do with the dramatic uptick in performance of their car from 2006 to 2007.
This is a team that didn’t win a race in ’06, and didn’t even come close. At Indy literally they couldn’t get out of their own way. They go from that to having the best car in the field the next year after receiving the 780-page cookbook on how to build a winning car.
There were no diffuser interpretations to make such a sudden jump in performance. Nor were there any dramatic technical rules changes to cause a sudden shakeup in the pecking order. But McLaren went from midfielders to winners in a big, big way. If it not for the interteam squabble between the drivers, they would have locked out both championships.
After the ’06 season, something changed at McLaren. Really, it probably began after they signed Fernando Alonso a year in advance. They went from a highly capable but hard luck team to one that decided to win at all costs. Remember the McLaren doublespeak has also went through the roof in the same timeframe as Hamilton’s arrival.
Or maybe I should refer to it as the context-adjusted truth.
I disagree that if Hamilton left McLaren, his troubles will follow. Unlike Schumacher, Hamilton was not the driving force behind his team’s resurgence. At Ferrari, Schumacher brought in his own people and ran the show. He was known to make tactical decisions during races. No one in the team had to tell him how to conduct himself.
In contrast, when arriving at McLaren, Hamilton was a rookie and a bit naive at that. He was not, and maybe still is not, at the level where he could bring in his own management and technical staff or make strategic and tactical decisions.
No one could imagine Hamilton having the presence of mind to change teams for the benefit of his competitive situation. No, he allegedly wanted to change teams because of his emotional situation. However, Schumacher changed teams for his competitive situation after his debut race! Schumacher was born to be a ruthless winner. Hamilton was not. He is merely a fantastic driver with an irrepressible fighting spirit.
Comparing ’07 to ’08 peoples’ interpretation of Alonso went from him being an overrated, whining, petulant, prima donna to the consensus best driver in F1. If Hamilton were to leave McLaren, I would expect a similar change in his public perception.
Sri
13th April 2009, 7:45
@JD
Agree with most of what you said with disagreement over couple of things:
1)Hamilton could have chosen not to lie, which he claims that was led into. B0!!0c%$, he ain’t no toddler, whose diaper needs changing every hour or so, cos he can’t manage his affairs.
2)Hamilton had a signed and sealed contract with McLaren, which is why he couldn’t change teams, unless something goes amiss. If you thought, it was because he’s a better person, ROTFL, LMAO. Schumacher, yes, he was more a driving machine, but that was on track. Off the track, he’s known to be a different person amongst friends and acquaintances. Yes, he didn’t have a contract signed-up so he had options. Besides, he was paying for a drive at Jordan(Even Eddie Jordan admitted that he got Schumacher to drive cos he could pay) and he was offered to be paid and a better car at Benetton. That should answer some questions for you, don’t it.